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Thread: Strange figure's distorsions under ILDA control

  1. #1
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    Unhappy Strange figure's distorsions under ILDA control

    Hi to all.
    Firstly I have to beg all of you to forgive me if I am going to write so... brutal way...
    I'm Steve from Italy. I'm 50 y.o. , but I go crazy for lasers since I was a kid...

    I have a very strange problem with my CS-200 Green ILDA/DMX 20kpps max.
    Before of all I have to tell that I tested everything lots and lots of times, without to find anything strange or any defect. I also sent back device to the seller: his technical team have tested it, without find any defect. For them also device is O.K.

    Well... this is a long and unbelievable story.

    Usually I test my laser units (I have 6 lasers) into my garage (car box). Obviously electrical power is the same that I have at home... as we all have!
    All remains ILDA laser units (PRO-400RGY and RS-800RGY) are working perfectly whith the same laptop or desktop PC, the same software and at the same place (garage or home).

    When I try to use CS-200G, playing some ILDA figure (with Showeditor 2007) using my laptop , pictures come out distorted, as you can see in picture I attached here (it should be a green perfect square...).
    Defect is always the same, in the same corner and it has the same direction for all pictures I try to play.

    If I switch the device off, move it to home and after 2-3 hours I try again.... It works!!! Damn! This is driving me crazy!
    Wait....please,you wait... story don't finish here...

    In my room I have another PC, a desktop. (same O.S. - WinXP-Pro).
    If I try to use the device connecting it to desktop PC, even if I am at home (not in garage), laser has the same defect.
    And now... the great last!!!.
    If I disconnect device from desktop and I wait the usual time (2-3 hours) and I connect the device once more time to my laptop .... It return to works fine!

    Unbelievable, don't you think?

    As I told, I alredy checked all connections outside and inside unit. Everything seems to be regular. I also thought at one "false-contact", so I verified all connectors, well pushing them each other. Nothing of nothing.
    Unit can work by DMX also (there are 2 switches at rear of device). Switches are O.K. and laser has always worked well by DMX and it is yet working well. This damned CS-200 green wants to work by ILDA in "random" way!!! Sometimes yes, sometimes (most times) no, even if I connect it to laptop.

    Can somebody tell me something helpful?
    I am going to become totally crazy for this damn problem. Really... You have to be sure, Mates!.

    Excuse me for my ugly english (I don't use any translator), for my little confused sentences and for some vulgarity I wrote.... But I am too much angry with myself.

    Thanks a lot in advance for who can help me.

    Cheers from Italy.
    Steve

  2. #2
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    If you only draw a single dot, does it still have diagonal distortion (create a line)? It could be a grounding issue. Are the outlets in your garage and in your house all grounded correctly? If you are using your laptop on battery, and it is working, and then you connect a serial cable from your laptop to your PC (grounding the laptop), does the problem return?

  3. #3
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    Hi Drlava, thanks a lot for your interest.
    I just finished to test one more time my "baby rebel"...
    Well... now I try to explain best I can.

    1) outles into garage and into home are regular and the same. No grounding problem, as I am able too see.
    2) If I try to draw a single dot, problem remains the same: I see a diagonal line, not a dot.

    Please phay attention now, this is my report: I am going to describe you exactely what I have just done during these last ten minutes.
    I was in home, into my studio room:

    a) Put a fully charged battery inside laptop and then I connected computer to the mains 220V. Laptop was working by mains, battery was inside, ready to operate.
    2) Turned on the laser device. Everything worked well. Pictures was fine.
    3) WITHOUT to switch off the laser, I disconnected laptop from the mains 220V, (I simulated a black-out power). Battery inside laptop starts to works regular way. Any problem for laptop and software which was running. Just disconnected laptop from mains, laser started to work BAD, as I already described.
    3) Immediately switched off laser and disconnected it from laptop. Connected it to desktop PC. Tried to play a figure. Laser continued to work bad: same defect.
    4) laser is always connected to desktop PC and it is always runnig bad: I tried to light up my table-light (halogen light 220V/24V and 25-50W). Nothing is happened.
    5) Just I switched the table-light off, laser STOPPED to run: any laser ray came out from device, even if it was connected to mains. It seemed me as somebody had "blinked" the laser. Fan was running ok, working status spy lights was ok.
    6) Tried to turn the table-light on, but nothing is happened. Laser was always connected to the mains, but any laser ray came out.
    7) switched off the laser, disconnected from desktop pc and immediately connected it to laptop PC one more time.
    8) Turned on the unit. Laser was working good!. Any apparent problem.
    9) I tried to light-on and turn-off my halogen table light for 8-10 times. No problem. Laser was working fine.

    Watch out now, please....

    10) I remember you the test situation at this point: laser working fine connected to laptop PC that is working connected from mains 220V.
    I tried half dozen of times to connect and disconnect laptop from the mains 220V. Every time I disconnected it from 220V, laser start to go bad. Just I connect the laptop to the mains, laser return to work well.

    It seems that laser device is too much "sensible" at voltage's hurl, or voltage peaks, or there is some capacitors of ILDA card that starts to have problem...

    This test has been long 10 minutes about.

    That's unbelievable..... Maybe I live into an Italian section of "Area51"...
    That's all mate.
    Cheers.

  4. #4
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    Hi, it's helpful that you posted such a detailed account. I still think your problem has do to with a grounding issue. The reason the dot projects a diagonal line in your system is that both galvo amps are getting a synchronous oscillatory offset (probably 50 Hz, can you hear it?) The laser is being blanked by this offset, this is why it can turn off sometimes when you experience the problem. Inspect the common (0V Gnd) line from your DAC to your projector for open circuit.

    If you have a multimeter, use it to measure the AC voltage between the laptop and dac gnd, dac gnd and galvo amp gnd, and between the differential dac outputs and dac gnd while attempting to project a stationary, centered dot. If any of the readings are not zero, then you have found a problem.

  5. #5
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    Smile

    Thank you very very much for your precious suggest.

    There are no words left to speak...
    Thanks a lot one more time.

    Greetings.
    Steve

  6. #6
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    Hi Steve Milani you could have a big surprise if you knew the age of most photolexicon member's

    At first I have to Agree with Drlava, but maybe your problem is another.
    Please Tell me, what kind of power supply does your amplifier and set of galvos use? a switched one or with transformer?
    Are they european made or Japan?
    I ask you these questions because if they are switched you may have what you say.
    "It seems that laser device is too much "sensible" at voltage's hurl, or voltage peaks, or there is some capacitors of ILDA card that starts to have problem..."
    Probably you guessed that you have to substitute some capacitors, but not at the ilda card, sure in your supplies.

    For some reason one of your power supply has bad capacitors and his injecting ripple on amp and galvos.
    Or maybe they have a leak of capacity and can't smooth or handle peaks and fast transition of power comsuption.
    Let us know how you are doing till now.

    Cheer's

  7. #7
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    Hi Survey!
    Wow! Portugal.... great country... excellent wines, food and fishes, beautiful beaches. And you have to be sure about my words, as I am in the Italian Navy and I've been all over the world.
    Any surprise, mate!
    I also know about the "medium age" of PL Members.....
    I surelly could be "Granny Steve".....(hopefully "Uncle" Steve...)

    Well... better to return back to the topic...
    Sincerely my very first thought about strange distorsions has been: "it belongs from some capacitor..."
    Power supply section is made in China. All components inside my CS-200 Green ILDA/DMX laser projector are made in China. I'm not so expert in electronics (I am steam engineer). I only can tell you that DPSS PSU is a black metal box (12 x 6 x 3 cm approx.) and then there is the classic 220V/low voltage transfrmer box, driver cards, etc.etc.
    I must to apologize ... I forgot to inform all of you about my un-typical ILDA input connection of my projector. Sorry... I am a big jack-ass...

    My laser has not a 25 pin male ILDA connector, but it has only 4 pin connector: it seem alike a Ethernet (or phone) connector. ILDA signal, coming from a regular 25 pin femal connector placed onboard at USB box (DAC Lumax), it goes to laser by only the following pin termination:
    1-2-6-19 (X+; Y+; green+; green-) there is NOT any ground or shield wire.

    Just last night I tested my "rebel boy". Now I'm going to tell you what my last situation is (Italian time 10.30 p.m. May 18th):
    Laser is always working fine if laptop is supplied by mains 220V.
    When I try to disconnect laptop from the main, unplugging the power supply pin (and battery of pc start to get power in regular way), laser start to go crazy. Just I plug one more time the power supply pin into laptop, laser return to work fine.
    I really had a lot of fun when trying to do this lots and lots....
    Main power 220V = laser goes!
    battery power = laser become crazy.

    Damn...This is a very funny game!!!

    I think both solutions could be right: a "ground" missing or a capacitor next to the death. I remark I am not an electronic expert as you are.

    Thank you for your help.
    (If the case I can post some photos of projector's components and assembly.)
    Cheers!
    Steve
    Last edited by Steve Milani; 05-19-2008 at 14:21.

  8. #8
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    Hi Steve,

    Just a quick thought, some laptops when on battery power go into a special mode, where it reduces various things on the laptop to try and save battery power.
    I think if you right click your battery power meter icon in the notification area of your task bar you should be able to change the options.

    Hope that helps,

    André

  9. #9
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    Smile

    Hi Andrč, sorry for delay...
    I already tried all my best working on PC save battery power mode...
    Problem is still on...
    Every time I switch from main 220 to battery mode, laser starts to go crazy, even if battery is full like an egg....
    Just like I re-plug the main 220.... laser returns to work fine.
    As I thought (and many other PL's Friends are thinking too...) the only guilty maybe a capacitor or another unsignificant component inside a PSU card or ILDA card.
    Anyway... You don't worry mate!
    I will not become crazy for this... you have to be sure...
    With a good peace of my mind, I will use this *crazy* laser device by DMX or Auto/Music mode only.
    Luckily I have other two RGY ILDA laser devices fully working!!!
    And I want to tell you more, mate: coming soon on your (my) screen.....
    a new RGB half watt analogue 20Kpps si approaching.......

    Thanks a lot for advices and support.
    Cheers
    Steve (Stefano)

  10. #10
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    to laser by only the following pin termination:
    1-2-6-19 (X+; Y+; green+; green-) there is NOT any ground or shield wire.
    so you need to make one. Connect a wire from ground on your dac to ground on the galvo input. It's possible that green- used to be your ground for all signals, depending if it's wired differentially or not.

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