Hazers

[Onge]

Hi all,

Good discussion on haze and fog in this thread.

I use a Martin Jem Magnum hazer http://www.martinpro.com/product/pro...tinmagnumhazer
The main reason I use this because a lot of venues that the band I do thighting for will not allow foggers/smoke machines as they can quite easily set of smoke/fire alarms where as the hazer I have does not, some places I have to do a 5 minute test on full output to ensure that it will not set them off.
It's also DMX controllable and I can vary the haze output and fan speed via my lighting controller, and that allows me to vary the density and depth of the haze at anytime.
Yes it is expensive and you can only use their "Pro Haze" fluid (water/glycol based) as it does not have a heat controller so you can't use "cheap" fluids. A lot of hazers do have a heat controller so you can use the "cheaper" fluids. I personally want to just fill it up and go without having to fiddle all the time with the heat controls to get the optimum haze production. Another thing is that after the first 30 seconds of output you do not notice the smell and it does not seem to affect the band members throats as some smoke/fog/haze fluids can.

I cannot say which is better for lazer shows, but for me this gives me what I want/need all of the time and my lights and lasers look good in it. So I am a happy man as are the band and the audience.

André

[aclasers]

If anybody is interested, i will be selling one of my martin magnum hazers in the next week or so,

I was going to list it on ebay,

Very low use, 100% working fine,

[will_ko]

Cost? Pictures ?

[aclasers]

I have no idea what to sell for, they are expensive, reliable machines, thats why i was just going to ebay it,

I will take pictures later,

If anybody wants to make me an offer, pm me,

I have a couple of bottles of fluid i will give away with it,

[rMuD]

I find this statement very wrong... Hazers produce almost no residue compared to Water based machines. your talking 1oz of Light mineral oil vs gallons of water based fluid. Hazers also have much better hang time, meaning less amount needed to maintain a room. Also if you use unscented and use a hazer that doesn't "Burn" the oil.. there is no residual odor vs the "Club" smell you'll have from a water base Machine.

I've used a mineral oil based machine in my house many many many many times with no residue... the hobbie hazer, and/or a MAX 3000

I have my MAX 3000 over a friends house where they very often "HAZE" the place til it's a black out... "Groping parties" no residue ever..... I don't think they've used 8oz of fluid yet.. and they've been doing this weekly since New Years...

Not quite. *Some* haze machines use oil-based fluid. These machines produce very fine particles (usually using compressed air to atomize the fluid) that hang in the air for a long time. These machines do indeed leave an oily residue on surfaces.

However, some other haze machines use water and glycol or water and glycerin based fluids. These units use heat to atomize the fluid rather than compressed air. (Just like fog machines do.) Also, because the fluid is not oil based, the residue is less noticeable, but there are still "tiny particles of crap" floating in the air. The down side of the larger particle size is that the particles don't hang in the air as long. (max of 1 hour for a water based hazer, vs 6 hours for an oil based hazer)

[buffo]

I find this statement very wrong... Hazers produce almost no residue compared to Water based machines.

Hi Rob;

I probably should have clarified my statement. Yes, it's true that hazers use a lot less fluid than foggers do. However, the oil-based haze fluid is a lot more difficult to clean up than the water-based fog solutions.

For a single use in a venue, this isn't a big deal. But for use in the same venue night after night; well, all that oil builds up after a while and it is a real mess to clean up. (Oil residue doesn't wipe away with a damp cloth like fog juice does!)

your talking 1oz of Light mineral oil vs gallons of water based fluid.

Hmmm... Gallons of water-based fluid? That sounds like a bit of an exaggeration. Let's call it a couple oz of fine oil verses maybe 12 ounces of fog solution - and even there I'm being pretty generous. I've seen DF50's go through up to 4 ounces of oil-based fluid in a night (6 hours continuous use). Likewise, my Antari 1200Z uses about 10 ounces of fog juice to lightly fog a 500 seat auditorium and keep it that way for 6-8 hours. (Of course, cheaper machines use more fluid.) So there is a lot of wiggle-room on the specs.

Hazers also have much better hang time, meaning less amount needed to maintain a room.

No question there. Hazers certainly produce a longer-lasting atmosphere.

Also if you use unscented and use a hazer that doesn't "Burn" the oil.. there is no residual odor vs the "Club" smell you'll have from a water base Machine.

Yeah, this is a drawback of all heat-based fluids. They have a distinct smell to them that many people find mildly unpleasant. A hazer that uses compressed air to atomize the fluid is truly odorless. So yeah, that's another plus for hazers. (As for scented fluid - Yuk. That stuff is just gross.)

I've used a mineral oil based machine in my house many many many many times with no residue... the hobbie hazer, and/or a MAX 3000

That's really interesting. I've spoken with several venue managers that were really pissed that the haze got all over their lighting gels, the mirrors behind the bar, and all the audio gear after roughly 3-4 months of operation. Of course, they weren't warned about the residue when they had the hazers installed. Granted, these were DF50's, but I wouldn't expect the MAX 3000 to perform differently.

What's your opinion regarding the opacity difference between haze and fog? Do you agree that a thin fog produces better "liquid sky" effects (paisley patterns, etc) than the more uniform haze?

I have my MAX 3000 over a friends house where they very often "HAZE" the place til it's a black out... "Groping parties" no residue ever..

What fluid are you using? Maybe I need to do some research into the MAX 3000. It sounds like it's a lot better than the DF50... (At least the one's I've had the pleasure of working with that is!)

Adam

[rMuD]

Hi Rob;

I probably should have clarified my statement. Yes, it's true that hazers use a lot less fluid than foggers do. However, the oil-based haze fluid is a lot more difficult to clean up than the water-based fog solutions.

For a single use in a venue, this isn't a big deal. But for use in the same venue night after night; well, all that oil builds up after a while and it is a real mess to clean up. (Oil residue doesn't wipe away with a damp cloth like fog juice does!)

Maybe we need to go back to the fundamentals of what a smoke machine is vs a Hazer. And where and what they are best used for.

smoke machines is best for filling a room with smoke and swirls for lighting... used to put out a large volume of smoke to enhancing the visibility of the beams of lights where time is short, or enviromentals are not controlable.

Hazers by design use a low pressure system to put out very fine particles that the desired effect is to be invisible until direct light is used and it puts out a very night bright crisp beam. Used mostly in indoor venues where the enviromentals are controllable, or augmented by smoke machines for high impact times and to refresh the venue on the spot.

Now I can fill a venue with haze for 6 months and come no where near sliming the venue, with a quality machine that isn't burning fluid, maintained and cleaned (for theory purposes)

A hazer put on full blast not maintained.. using fish pumps and non-regulated heaters.. sure.. slimed venue.. same with aqua smog.. that a wet cloth your going to need alot of them cause it's sticky and you got more crud that you want on everything... Hazer fluid is light mineral oil.. dish washing soap or the likes.. windex.. etc.. would have to be used to clean. Your going to need something to cover the stench as well with the aqua smog. so it's not just water you need.

Hmmm... Gallons of water-based fluid? That sounds like a bit of an exaggeration. Let's call it a couple oz of fine oil verses maybe 12 ounces of fog solution - and even there I'm being pretty generous. I've seen DF50's go through up to 4 ounces of oil-based fluid in a night (6 hours continuous use). Likewise, my Antari 1200Z uses about 10 ounces of fog juice to lightly fog a 500 seat auditorium and keep it that way for 6-8 hours. (Of course, cheaper machines use more fluid.) So there is a lot of wiggle-room on the specs.

Also alot of over use as well, If I run my MAX3000 at 60 PSI for 3 hours I'll use 8oz of Oil.. But I'll fill a College sized arena to blackout conditions for the duration...

Exactly on the DF50 your running full bore all night.. yea it's going to use 4oz I don't think you could run a Antari 1200Z for 6-8 hours straigh without a 55 gallon drum....

No question there. Hazers certainly produce a longer-lasting atmosphere.
Yeah, this is a drawback of all heat-based fluids. They have a distinct smell to them that many people find mildly unpleasant. A hazer that uses compressed air to atomize the fluid is truly odorless. So yeah, that's another plus for hazers. (As for scented fluid - Yuk. That stuff is just gross.)
That's really interesting. I've spoken with several venue managers that were really pissed that the haze got all over their lighting gels, the mirrors behind the bar, and all the audio gear after roughly 3-4 months of operation. Of course, they weren't warned about the residue when they had the hazers installed. Granted, these were DF50's, but I wouldn't expect the MAX 3000 to perform differently.

MDG's use CO2 as Mark Put it.. to break them down to much smaller particles that actually pass thru most air filters. I also blame things like me quitting smoking.. I feel more miserable now than I did before I quit.. is it because I quit smoking? no I'm just thinking about I quit smoking so anything bad is thrown as this happened cause I quit smoking... Their Gels and everything else were slimed before and after and even when they get rid of the hazers.. until they ban Smoking, Perfume, and the likes of anything that evaporates venues are going to be slimed to some point.

What's your opinion regarding the opacity difference between haze and fog? Do you agree that a thin fog produces better "liquid sky" effects (paisley patterns, etc) than the more uniform haze?
What fluid are you using? Maybe I need to do some research into the MAX 3000. It sounds like it's a lot better than the DF50... (At least the one's I've had the pleasure of working with that is!)

2 different animals a MAX3000 is a smoke machine, a DF50 is a Hazer, that you'd put up against a MDG Atmosphere. MAX3000 is oil based compared to a F100..

I'm sure that you could get one of those crazy Canadians to come down for your conference.. I don't know if Mark retired or not.. Bill Benner might know... the big difference of a MDG and anything else is the price.. it's defiently not in a hobbie or Consumer range.. though I bought mine when I was a hobbiest.. but I think if I did it again.. I'd probably buy the 500mw full color projector that you can get for that kinda of money now....

[James Lehman]

rMuD,

I agree with you completely! (well... within reason. I want you to like me!)

I might not have worded my previous posts exactly correctly, but the spirit was there.

I've seen thick glop on the fan screens of club light systems. YUK!

Like I said... Get an iron skillet and fry up some hot dogs!

That makes smoke. Cooking smoke doesn't register as fast in a smoke detector as large dirty globs of sticky goop.

James.

PS. Nice to see you're still here! "Groping parties" ??? You didn't invite me?

[rMuD]

rMuD,

PS. Nice to see you're still here! "Groping parties" ??? You didn't invite
me?

haha... I'm so old and fat I don't get invited either.. nothing creeps out the young ladies as old fat men with a beard.

[James Lehman]

haha... I'm so old and fat I don't get invited either.. nothing creeps out the young ladies as old fat men with a beard.

Old !!! ???
You're barely 38! You're younger than my younger brother.

As far as "fat men with a beard" goes....
I better keep my fingers quiet!
Hmmmmmmmm......

"young ladies" ? Never mind....



Doesn't matter... Terry wouldn't let me go.

Just kidding! I'm not a "groper" anyway.

Have I said too much?

Shut Up!

James.