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Thread: Cheapest DAC?

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by buffo View Post

    What, exactly, are you trying to do with your laser projector? Are you interested in creating your own shows that are syncronized to music? Or are you planning to play along "live" to an external music source? Is it important for you to have lots of pre-made shows to watch? Do you have a use for DMX control? Do you need a library of ILDA frames? How important is image quality to you? Does your projector support analog color modulation?

    The answers to these questions will help you decide which software package and hardware controller is best for you. Sound cards can indeed be used as controllers, both with a few of the free software packages out there (LaserBoy, Spaghetti, etc) as well as with some commercial software packages (Mamba Black, for example) that offer more advanced features. There are some drawbacks to using a sound card, but if money is very tight, it's a way to get started.

    Don't forget the Pangolin "LA Freak" package though. For $500 you get the Flashback 3 controller *and* the LA Studio laser show software suite. It's a very good deal on a professional controller and software package.

    Still, it *is* $500, and if that's a deal breaker, then LaserBoy or Spaghetti might be what you're looking for.

    Adam

    Well I would like to write shows to music maybe a little live work . I would like decent picture quality . I plan on Building a RGY setup Although I do not quite now how to do that yet. I have ordered in my 30k scan galvos. 1 35 mw 532nm laser with ttl modulation then I found a good deal on another 532 with ttl its 50 mw so I bought that too you can never have to many lasers. Can I use them both ? I know I need a red but I do not know what power to buy to have the right color balance or even what else I need to combine the two to make yellow that will come.

    The $500 for the fb3 is not a deal breaker and I have been looking at it but I will have to save up. I would not mind building a sound card dac but I have yet to find the information on it. I am fairly handy with electronics. I can read schematics etch my own pcb's solder. I do a lot of Atmel microprocessor work. It would atleast get me by till I could save up for the fb3. I have no idea where to buy the fb3 pangolin's site says it $595 and sold to oems only so I am kind of at a loss there.

    So ya thats what I am looking for and where I am at in this process.

    Liam

  2. #22
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    There is nothing to the sound card mod. There is a schematic on here and on the LaserBoy website that shows an amplifier. You need one for each channel of the soundcard that you use. For XYRGB that means 5 channels and 5 amps. You just duplicate them but they all share the same power source. You can get chips that contains several opamps so you can share them to reduce components. Then you just need to figure out where to tap into the soundcard. You just trace backwards from the output jacks past the capacitors and then solder your wires there. That's pretty much all there is to it. If there is something about it that doesn't make sense just ask.

  3. #23
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    If you're handy with a soldering iron you could probably breadboard yourself a parallel port DAC similar to Norms for around $40 USD. I made 3 or 4 different iterations myself. The DAC is compatible with popelscan, HE-Laserscan and probably several other programs. If you search you might find the free programs, schematics & discussions about them. Guido did the original and dnst took it and ran with it, but I think they've both moved on.

    I did find a copy of dnst's last iteration of it at
    http://www.imagic.pl/public/100087/c...elscan_dac.JPG

    and a less complicated version at

    http://www.uploadarchief.net/files/d...ndler+ttl2.jpg

    There's also the Die4DAC at http://www.die4laser.com/die4dac/index.htm

    There can be speed & timing issues with a parallel port dac though.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by carmangary View Post
    There is nothing to the sound card mod. There is a schematic on here and on the LaserBoy website that shows an amplifier. You need one for each channel of the soundcard that you use. For XYRGB that means 5 channels and 5 amps. You just duplicate them but they all share the same power source. You can get chips that contains several opamps so you can share them to reduce components. Then you just need to figure out where to tap into the soundcard. You just trace backwards from the output jacks past the capacitors and then solder your wires there. That's pretty much all there is to it. If there is something about it that doesn't make sense just ask.

    That makes since I have been over complicating it in my head. So i just need to build an op-amp per channel of the sound card ? I need to tie in to the card pre the caps so I am eliminating the decoupling of the outputs?

    How is blanking handled ?


    Liam

  5. #25
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    Hi Liam;

    Based on your experience with electronics, you shouldn't have much trouble if you decide to build your own DAC. I would advise against Parallel port DACs, however, for the exact reason ajohnson30 mentioned above: Timing Issues. Parallel port DACs are notorious for having problems with timing. (Click the mouse, access the hard drive, eject a disk, or do anything else that causes the computer to do any extra work, and the output to the parallel port will freeze for a second or two. When this happens, your scanners *STOP*, and you have a static beam displayed for the duration of the time that the computer is busy.) This is a failing of the PC hardware, not the design of the DAC, and it's something that you just have to live with. (And believe me - it sucks!)
    Quote Originally Posted by coil1002 View Post
    I need to tie in to the card pre the caps so I am eliminating the decoupling of the outputs?
    Exactly. YOu need to be able to output DC, so you have to tie in before the final output filter caps.
    How is blanking handled ?
    You use a separate channel for each color (red, green, and blue). That's why you need a 6 channel sound card. (Well, technically you only need 5 channels: X, Y, R, G, & B.)
    I found a good deal on another 532 with ttl its 50 mw so I bought that too you can never have to many lasers. Can I use them both?
    Assuming that they are both polarized, you could combine the two beams using a polarizing beam-splitting cube. However, the cost of the cube and the mount would probably be more than the cost of the 35 mw laser, so it's not really feasible. Keep the second laser and use it for experiements and testing, and use the 50 mw unit in your projector.
    I need a red but I do not know what power to buy to have the right color balance
    With 50 mw of green, you'll want around 250 mw of red if you go with 660nm. If you decide to use 635 nm red, you only need about 60 mw to get good color balance.
    what else [do] I need to combine the two to make yellow
    You'll need a dichro that reflects red and passes green. Edmund Optics sells them for around $45, and Bridge from LAserWave (he's a member here on PL) sells them for a little less. See if you can jump in on the group buy that Mliptack is running on Bridge's behalf. You will also need an adjustable mount (MM1 or similar) to hold the dichro and allow you to fine-tune the alignment. Bridge sells these mounts as well.
    I have no idea where to buy the fb3
    You can call Pangolin and order it, but you have to ask for the "LA Freak" package. (You can also order it on-line, but again, you must specify the "LA Freak" package to get it for $500.) The differences between the LA Freak package and the FB3 evaluation kit are: 1) LA Freak does not include the DMX daughterboard. 2) LA Freak is not licensed for commercial use. Otherwise, they're the same. (You can always add the DMX board later on if you decide you want it.) Ignore the part about OEM manufacturers. It's aimed at projector manufacturers, but it's not exclusively limited to them. Hobbyists are free to purchase the unit too. (And the LA Freak package is specifically aimed at hobbyists.) If you think you'll want to use it commercially at some point in the future, then go ahead and spend the extra $95 up front and just order the Evaluation kit.

    You haven't filled in your location yet, but if you're in the US I highly encourage you to try to attend the South Eastern Laser Enthusiast's Meeting we'll be holding over the weekend of August 16th and 17th this year in Newton, NC. It's a great opportunity for you to see *lots* of different laser gear set up and running. You can meet some of the folks that frequent the forums and ask questions about the software they use, the hardware they've built, and the problems they've had. It's an awesome learning experience, plus it's one hell of a lot of fun!

    If you're in the UK, you're still in luck, because the folks over there have a UKLEM planned for this coming August as well. These events are very social in nature, and new members are *encouraged* to attend. Have a look in the "meet and greet" sub-forum and check out the posts for SELEM and UKLEM. Sure hope you can make it to one of them!

    Adam
    Last edited by buffo; 06-19-2008 at 06:29.

  6. #26
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    Doh! Coil stole my topic. Haha.

    I am actually looking for sort of the same thing as coil really, just I will be using a RGY scanner. The main things I will be needing is music synk and a way of easily downloading or making different animations and beam shows to use quickly when ever I need them.
    DL - Viper 75mW - Green (532nm)
    DL - 50mW Module - Green (532nm)
    DIY - 50mW - 12k Scanner - Green (532nm)

  7. #27
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    Try my Spaghetti software. I made it specifically for making music synchronized shows. I have kind of stalled on it since I have been busy with other things but it is not dead. I am in the middle of adding morphing which is turning out to being a bit of a challenge but once I finish that you will see a lot of new things happening such as things other people have requested. It doesn't have a drawing utility but there are plenty of free drawing tools out there to make ILDA files. Once you have an ILDA file you can add it to the timeline and manipulate it with effects.

  8. #28
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    Talking

    If you are going to make a modified sound card DAC, you might want to check out LaserBoy. That is kinda' what it was made for.

    Also, if you use it's capabilities to make and project your shows, you will find a palette called "RedGreen" that will be most useful for an RGY setup.

    James.

  9. #29
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    You haven't filled in your location yet, but if you're in the US I highly encourage you to try to attend the South Eastern Laser Enthusiast's Meeting we'll be holding over the weekend of August 16th and 17th this year in Newton, NC. It's a great opportunity for you to see *lots* of different laser gear set up and running. You can meet some of the folks that frequent the forums and ask questions about the software they use, the hardware they've built, and the problems they've had. It's an awesome learning experience, plus it's one hell of a lot of fun!

    Adam

    Thank you for the wealth of information. My apologies for high jacking the thread Lam . I am out of Seattle wa Not much to do out her but find things to do inside while its raining.

  10. #30
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    Default Analog DAC

    So what is a good starting Analog DAC to buy?

    one i was after is a TTL - so no point after spending money on a Analog Laser

    i do want a good one capable of 50k pps and also with DMX

    i like the idea of the pangolin FS3 deal for $500 is it compatable with HE laserscan, Norms etc?

    can anyone advise?
    http://inselaffe.org

    http://www.myspace.com/majorleeblunt

    An Eye for a Eye only makes the World Blind - Ghandi

    Laserworld 750mW Proline RGB
    Laserworld Quad 400mW RG
    Lanta 180mW RGY

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