I need to know audience scanning..., and Chauvet Scorpions..

[Misebeam]

Okay, I cannot believe I am asking this after the Russian show incident, but I would like to know so I can get my band manager off my back. Our band has 4 cheesy! Chauvet Scorpions with 532 “Fat beam” technology. These are consider as Class 3r lasers, here are the specs:

Warning sticker at bottom


ADDITIONAL FEATURES
• 10mW Fat Beam™ laser produces a 10-14mm beam which complies with IEC Safety Standards under ClassIIIA
• No variance required

SPECIFICATIONS
• Laser: 532nm/10mW green laser module•
Our Lasers
• Before buying laser fixtures, ask whether they comply with FDA performance standards, as is required by law. Ours do. We don't ship any CHAUVET laser until they are in compliance with FDA safety regulations pursuant to Laser Notice No. 50, dated July 26,2001 for CLASS 3R Laser products 5.0mW CW Diode 532 nm (green) or 635-650 nm (red) IEC/EN 60825-1, ed 1.2. This review process is costly and lengthy. Sadly, other companies choose to bypass it, in defiance of the law. Ask before you buy. You'll be glad you did.


These units are over the counter, and suppose to be legal with the CLASS 3R products, do they have to follow the same restrictions for audience scanning? I see them in night clubs all the time pointing down into the audience. Could somebody clarify if this unit is acceptable to mount on a truss 13.4 feet above the audience? Do they still have to have the 2.5 meter crowd allowance?

Thanks for the info, sorry for asking this question during this time. Getting some input from knowledgeable people will help me prove my point. Thanks!!

[instinct]

I've seen the Scorpians and many other lasers like those used at MANY clubs here in California. Also SamAsh, ProSound, and Guitar Center have all had them set up in their lighting rooms. I am confident that these are safe to crowdscan with, however, I am no professional.

The Laserist (http://www.laserist.org/Laserist/showbasics_7.html) says:

"Audience scanning in the US is legal as long as you stay within the MPE, have equipment safeguards to protect against any malfunctions, and have a show "variance" approved by the government regulators. Which brings us to another myth about audience scanning in the US: hard-nosed safety regulators would find a way to shut down an audience-scanning show, no matter what safety steps were taken. Although US regulators are perhaps more active than their European counterparts when it comes to scrutinizing laser light shows, they have approved audience scanning in the past."

Since that laser has no variance requirement, since they are extremely low power, I think that as long as you are within the MPE limits, you should be fine.


edit: not sure about the 2.5 meter allowance, but it would be a good idea.

[mixedgas]

right now on the verge of a hostile laser regulatory environment after moscow, you might want to ask the ILDA safety chair about the merits of any given product labeled iiiR, I've seen one or two things at Sam Ash that were wayyyyy too hot IMHO, not the chauvets, but some other cheper toyz. One gave me a %$#ing hot afterimage and I didnt even know it was there till I walked into the demo room and it burst on.

As for the ILDA safety chair he hangs out here from time to time, as lasrgreg

Steve Roberts

[Alsone]

I understand that the principle of fat beam lasers is top reduce the audience scanning risk. I believe the size of a dilated pupil is taken to be as 7mm or 8mm (I can't remember exactly) and the idea behind fat beam is that being larger than the pupil, with a direct scan only a part of the beam ever enters the eye at anyone time thus reducing the level of radiation when compared to a laser of similar power with a beam diameter of less than that of a dilated pupil.

That said, I'm not offering any specific safety advice only that my understanding is that these are safer than normal lasers with narrow beams of the same wattage. My advice, like most peoples above, is to approach the IDLA and ask for advice as MPE limits and calculations may still apply.

[Things]

Thats a thick beam!! Anyways, 10mw really isnt a big problem, especially with the fat beam. Aslong as you let the laser diverge abit before it his the crowd you should be fine.

[Misebeam]

Hey Thanks for the responses!

I really do not like using them... My band manger is always ragging me on the use of them because he says they are "legal to point in the crow", but I do not want to take the chance! The problem with these things is they are not even DMX controlled, so I have to turn them on thru a relay DMX relay box(Which is a pain in the butt for timing, as they take about 5 sec to start up). These unit are a pain due to all of the irradict patterns, so when you think you have it aligned right, it jumps to a pattern 2X the size into the audience. This always causes some patterns to display below my 10ft comfort zone. Anyhow thanks for all of the good info, I am still going to try to keep them as high as possible. Hope to replace them with something real sometime soon!!!