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Thread: Belgium Laser Pointer Incident

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
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    Default Belgium Laser Pointer Incident

    Most of you know about the laser incident at a music fest in Belgium over the summer.

    After In-Depth and very analytical investigations, the following information has been released:

    (From the ILDA E-mail list)
    -------------------------------------------------------

    To ILDA Members and interested laserists:

    On August 4, press reports indicated that two persons were injured by lasers at the Tomorrowland Festival, held July 25-26 in Boom, Belgium. The reports implied that the festival's laser show was the cause of the injuries. One of the injured persons filed a police complaint.

    On September 2, a meeting was held with the police, the mayor of Boom, health and safety officers, the festival organizers, and the laser show producer. During the meeting, it was concluded that the injuries were caused by laser pointers that had been misused by audience members. The laser show producer -- an ILDA Member -- was cleared in the matter. (I have kept the Member's name out of this discussion, since they were found to have done nothing wrong.)

    There were a number of indications that the laser show was safe. First, only two persons were injured. While that is unfortunate, if there was a problem with a laser show, one would expect many more injuries. Two persons out of 90,000 attendees indicates the problem lies elsewhere.

    In addition, the show used safe practices. Scan fail devices were used. The show was continuously monitored by the operators. Software "beam attenuation maps" were used to ensure that beam power was lower in audience areas. Calculations showed that the irradiance of the beams was at most about 50 mW/cm^2, at the point of closest audience access. At 20 meters into the audience, the irradiance was about 10 mW/cm^2. ILDA recommends 10 mW/cm^2 (the MPE) for shows in conservative venues like theme parks, churches, corporate events, etc. and 100 mW/cm^2 as the maximum for shows in places like discos, nightclubs, festivals. Thus, this show was well under ILDA-recommended maximum levels.

    In contrast, witnesses saw a number of high-powered lasers being (mis)used by audience members. At an estimated power of 200 mW, a laser pointer would have an irradiance 20 to 100 times more powerful than the light show laser. This is why authorities concluded that the two injuries were due to laser pointer misuse.

    A full description and analysis of the show is at http://www.laserist.org/2009-07_Belgian-incident.htm.

    I want to thank Greg Makhov for his invaluable assistance in analyzing this incident.
    ---------------------------------------------------

    I say AGAIN.....there is ABSOLUTELY NO FU*KING REASON FOR ANYONE TO HAVE A 200mW pointer!!! PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!!!

    YES, theyre fun. (so are explosives, but they are regulated).
    YES, Laserists have fun with them (so do Gun enthusiasts with machine guns. but machine guns are regulated)
    YES, they can be educational. (So can the Anarchists Cookbook, but there are better ways to become educated)
    YES, a *few* companies are putting pretty little labels on them to say dont point at planes. (Its not even REMOTELY close to stopping anything)
    YES, some responsible people use them. (MANY more irresponsible schmucks use them and abuse them and cause industry uproars).
    YES, i own one, YES you own one. YES 99.9% of us and other laserists have one. (but the majority of the "general population" who purchases one uses them irresponsibly if not, dangerously.)

    ENOUGH ALREADY!!!!!!!

    -Marc
    http://www.laserist.org/images/ildalogos/ILDA-logo_colored-beams_Corporate_150w.jpg

    ILDA- U.S. Laser Regulatory Committee

    Authorized Dealer for:

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  2. #2
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    Default

    I vote to ban laser pointers, only because of the mis-use of them
    like ive said before, nobody is going to fork over thousand of dollars into a laser projector, and be irresponsible with it (due to liability).
    But laser pointers on the other hand,, well just look at all the incidents allready ENOUGH!

  3. #3
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    Default

    @gottaluvlasers: See, I just don't understand why more members here can't take your approach to this. Rather than make blanket statements or display a childish superiority complex, you have taken the time to publish the official ILDA record of the occurrence and then let people decide for themselves. No belittling of entire groups of people solely because they enjoy more types of lasers than just laser projectors, no pointless babbling, just hard fact. Very good!!

    This is an unfortunate occurrence. I am fully in agreement that there is no good reason to have portables over 200mW (or even 50-100mW if you ask me). I think that all portable lasers should come with a host of safety features and instructions, even the low-powered ones. they should not be sold under the premise that they are toys. Perhaps the same types of warnings and instructions that are provided with BB guns should be provided with all laser pointers. I also wish people would behave more responsibly so that no more of these types of incidents occur.

    I REALLY think that the users here who have high-powered portables and want to ban them at the same time (there are LOTS of those here) should be the first to take their portables and destroy them. Not sell them to recoup some of the cash, I mean destroy them. Burn them, throw them in the trash, or whatever. That way they will be just slightly less hypocritical. This is not directed at anyone in particular, but if you own a high-powered portable, then you have ABSOLUTELY no business wanting to ban them unless you have already destroyed yours. Someone should take the first step toward this "pointer free utopia"..

    Thank you for taking the time to be professional and respectful in your post.
    Last edited by ElektroFreak; 09-04-2009 at 11:21.

  4. #4
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    Default

    there is no reason for anyone to have a laser pointer over 5mw, other than to do stupid , illegal things with

  5. #5
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    Default

    ^You have already destroyed any high-powered portable you may have, correct? (assuming, of course, that you had one in the first place..) Wouldn't want to come off as a hypocrite.. that really hurts one's credibility.
    Last edited by ElektroFreak; 09-04-2009 at 11:17.

  6. #6
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    Well, i have never owned one, never needed one, never wanted one. I dont see the use for one, besides to get retardo with it.....

  7. #7
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    Default

    there you go.. YOU have full rights to take your position by default, then. Not everyone here can say that. People talk so badly about portables, but I guarantee that the majority of the folks doing the talking own them themselves.. now doesn't that seem a little ridiculous?

  8. #8
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    Default

    I'm not trying to offend anyone that owns one, just stating my opinions .
    I'm allowed that aren't I?

  9. #9
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    Default

    You misunderstand, I meant no offense to you. You qualify as someone who is entitled to take the position you have taken without being a hypocrite. I'm serious when I say that. I'm not trying to be rude or sarcastic, I'm serious.

    You might think that I support portables and that that is why I've been posting about this so much. Nothing could be further from the truth. I've been posting about this so much because I don't like the way many members here approach the situation. Many of them have been posting rude, hypocritical comments about portables and the people who use them. I find that to be both bullshit and aboslutely pathetic, and I will call them out every time I see them.

    Until a person has rid themselves of any portable lasers they might own, then they have no business being rude to other people who also have portables.

  10. #10
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    Lightbulb

    I feel it is like the right to bear arms and think a lil regulation would be good; like they have for guns. I would have no problem getting a license if it was cheap and fairly hassle free. I only have a 100mW blu-ray any way. If I had to have a high power hand held, and had to take it out in public; getting a "conceled" hand held laser permit should not be considered too much for me to do, assuming I had to do these things. And yes, regulation of the suppliers would be needed also.

    I do not agree with banning anyting though. Limits very rarely work to stop anyting.
    Love, peace, and grease,

    allthat... aka: aaron@pangolin

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