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Thread: Big scan angle (60 degrees)

  1. #1
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    Default Big scan angle (60 degrees)

    Greetings guys!

    It's been a while since I posted something, been very busy with a lot of sound&light shows, and of course my lasers

    Last weekend I went to a party called Q-Base and there were a lot of lasers there.

    What caught my attention was the following. All the lasers there had a very big scan angle (around 60 degrees). As the show was done by Laserimage, they use the CT 6210 scanners.

    In my own lasers I got some scannersets that can display 50.000pps @ 5 degrees. The CT's go 60.000 pps @ 7 degrees.

    The maximum angle of the CT's is 80 degrees, mine is 60 degrees.

    But what I don't understand is how they get such a big scanangle. (Maximum I got out of them was 30 degrees and one of the galvo's didn't like that ) I understand that if you want a big scanangle your scanners will be a lot slower.

    The software I've got is a lot like mamba (old laserworld version), but will only go to 35.000 pps. And I use a easylase usb dac.

    In the software there aren't any options so set up the scanners

    In a few months I want to buy Pangolin Intro with a .net interface.

    Does Pangolin change the output pps during the show when it's displaying in a large angle ?

    As Pangolin is a lot more advanced then mamba, will I also be able to get my scanners up to such a big scan angle when I change to the new hard/software ?

    Thnx in advance for your time
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails q-base1.jpg  

    q-base2.jpg  

    Last edited by FLoWLASER; 09-01-2008 at 12:55. Reason: forgot someting..

  2. #2
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    Great photos fella ...nice to see what the BIG BOYS are upto , presumably by the brightness of the blues in those images theres enough monetary value in those lasers in use to quadruple the value of a small country if they owned them....... pfffff i have soooooo soooooo far to go

    p
    In the beginning there was none. Then came the light - #1 UKLEM - 2007
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  3. #3
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    If you think thats a big scan angle, you want to see what Hugo Bunk acheives at Awakenings - don't ask me how its done!

    Here's are a couple of stills I've captured from a video (which explains the poor resolution):

    Look at the angle and consequential width of this fan effect, I'm guessing thats approaching 120 degrees or so:




    And here its probably not obvious from the photo, but this blade effect is almost passing through what looks like almost 360 degrees. Its sweeping in a near circle down through the audience at the front then up over the top of the projector. Its hard to estimate but if I had to guess I'd say its was the illusion of 360 becuase its scanning approx so widely in a circular motion to the front of the projector:

    Last edited by White-Light; 09-01-2008 at 15:51.

  4. #4
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    Actually I've just measured the angle of the red fan in the centre of the picture here, I make it 110 degrees!!! I used an angle measuring rule as I couldn't find a protratcor so its not a precise measurement. Also I would think the camera angle actually lessens the real angle so my guess of 120 might not have been far off:




    Edit, Bill at Pangolin might know the projector spec as I've just found out they supplied the .net boards that were fitted into the projectors, all 13 of them!!!
    Last edited by White-Light; 09-01-2008 at 16:30.

  5. #5
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    wide angle....hmmm discoscans ?
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  6. #6
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    My first thought as well
    Maybe JeroenVDV can tell us how it's done, he works with Hugo sometimes
    Last edited by FourDee; 09-01-2008 at 23:36.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by aijii View Post
    wide angle....hmmm discoscans ?
    Yeah could be.

    All I know is that the Pangolin website talks about the .net boards being easily fitted in the "small" projectors used for this event (from those colours I'm presuming were talking casings and not watts!!!). I've never seen colours so pure anywhere before if you think the yellow is good (it suffers in the still compared to the video) look at this red and the white (doesn't show up well on a still but looks fantastic on video - also looks a different colour to your reds - wonder if they're using 635nm?) (sorry to diverge but deserved a mention):



    I know from watching their previous videos they use two laser balls (special mirror balls), one large, one small, to give laser rain. However, the projectors I've seen a picture of were mounted behind huge glass panels in the wall. Nearest thing I've seen are Kvant projectors in appearance. I'll try to find a picture of one.

    OK, I've found one of the event the mirror balls set up. Here they're actually using a disco scan and the 2 mirror balls to create the laser rain lathough its not very intense in thes particular clips. The disco scan is being used to feed the top mirror ball and lasers from the side of the arena to feed the bottom ball which is supended below the disco scabn. The 2nd wider photo clearly shows the 2nd ball and side beam feeding it. (sometimes (from the video) they use multiple side beams to feed the mirror ball sides simoultaneously on both balls in addition to the disco scan. This set up is the central green only scenario though so doesn't explain the wide coloured fans:











    Found one of the projectors - knew I'd seen them:


  8. #8
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by FLoWLASER View Post
    But what I don't understand is how they get such a big scanangle. (Maximum I got out of them was 30 degrees and one of the galvo's didn't like that ) I understand that if you want a big scanangle your scanners will be a lot slower.
    Did you maximize your input gain on the scanner amps? Are you running your scanners at 20K or slower? Did you tune them at the slower speed?

    If you take a set of 40K scanners and tune them for 30K, you'll get a wider scan angle. Likewise, if you tune them for 20K, you'll get even more scan angle out of them.

    At some point you'll reach the maximum limit of the scanner. (Where the scanner physically can't turn the rotor any farther.) To go beyond that, you need to upgrade to a scanner that *can* move farther. (The Widemove scanners from MediaLas, for example.)

    You said that one of the galvos "didn't like that" when you pushed it to 30 degrees. That probably means that you were trying to run them too fast. It also means that you probably tuned them at 30K and then tried to run them at 20K or slower without re-tuning. This won't work. Tune the scanners for the speed you want to run them at, and then leave them there.

    If a wide scan angle is important, tune your scanners slow and run them slow. If less flicker is more important, then tune your scanners to 30K (or even 40K), and then run them at that speed and live with the narrow scan angle.
    Does Pangolin change the output pps during the show when it's displaying in a large angle ?
    No. No software does this. You set the speed in the software, and it stays that way. Likewise, you set the size (scan angle), and it stays that way as well.

    If you want to scan wider, you need to re-tune your scanners for a slower speed, and you may also need to increase the input gain setting on the amps. (Remember, lower scanning speeds mean less damping is needed. Less damping means you can scan wider.) But you've got to re-tune to adjust the damping...

    Once you've tuned for the slower speed, you'll be able to scan wider than you could at 30 K or 40 K. The trade off, of course, is that the image will flicker a little more. This isn't a factor for beamshows, however, so many people tune their scanners down around 8K or 10K so they can get the widest possible scan angle. So long as you're doing simple fans and cones, it works fine.

    Also remember the limits of the scanners themselves. At some point you won't be able to get any wider. Watch out that you don't push them so hard that you're slamming the rotor up against the stops. (This can happen if you tune a set of 30K scanners for 8K and then max out the input gain.)
    As Pangolin is a lot more advanced then mamba, will I also be able to get my scanners up to such a big scan angle when I change to the new hard/software ?
    Pangolin still has to output the same type signal that Mamba does. The ILDA standard specifies a maximum voltage +/- 5 volts on the input to the scanners. That's not going to change no matter which controller and software package you use. You may find it easier to adjust the settings in Pangolin, and you may notice that the signal is cleaner (less noise and no sample jitter), but the scan angle isn't going to change.

    Now, several people have mentioned the discoscan lens that Pangolin sells. This is a very heavy, precision lens that attaches to your projector and artificially increases your scan angle by enlarging the beam (and thus the distance between them as well). It's like passing your scanned beam through a fish-eye lens. It spreads everything out.

    These lenses are quite expensive, but they can give you a much wider scan angle. Contact Pangolin for more information about the discoscan lens if you're interested in one.

    Adam

  9. #9
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    All those projectors have CT6215 (not CT6210) scanners. Tuned and used @ 60 degrees (not more, maybe the picture is a bit strange). They can do 80 degrees mechanical, but ofcourse they are used at 60 degrees optical max.

    The "true" Yellow you see is not green+red but Coherent OPSL (Optically Pumped Semiconductor Laser) yellow. Same for blue. Combined it makes beautiful white.

    The full-colour (including red) is Jenlas whitelight.

    All the projectors are built by laser image. Scanhead with CT-scans & QM2000.NET, connects to laserhousing which has the lasersource, by an optical ring. The scanhead connects to the Jenlas whitelight by a fiber connection. Scanheads are complete waterproof, most of the lasers too.
    Last edited by JeroenVDV; 09-02-2008 at 05:57.

  10. #10
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    Thanks Jeroen, some wonderful colours there and the scanner info will probably help the OP.

    Are the Coherants the Venoms?

    Do I take it you're either Hugo or work for Hugo?
    Last edited by White-Light; 09-02-2008 at 06:02.

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