Spaghetti - Spaghetti - Spaghetti

[keeperx]

im in the middle of making a show to the tune of Such Great Heights from the postal service..

[buffo]

This thread is not to discuss why you are a douche.

Then why do you persist in explaining why you think I am? Sheesh - first you say we shouldn't be talking about something, then you go ahead and talk about it anyway. And you call *me* a douche? Get a clue man...

Also Adam, I think I posted maybe 4 times on LaserPointerForums.

Well, you seem to have made an impression with those four posts. See this gem from LaserPointerForums posted yesterday:

c'mon, stop this stupid fighting and crying there at pl please, hmkay?

Now, I don't know who "Xer0" is, but you clearly made an impression on him. Or what about "Event Horizon" who said:

You could at least leave the latest build up so us poor people can have some fun with it.

I'm not a member of LaserPointerForums, mind you. I don't post there, and I haven't even looked at any of the posts there in years - at least until yesterday. That's when I got a PM from someone here who pointed out the fact that you posted there announcing you were pulling the plug on Spaghetti as well.

The guy that PM'd me quoted some of the messages he'd received from other LPF members, so I went to see for myself. True, there are only 2 public posts complaining about you killing Spaghetti, but there are other people sending PM's about it there as well. This isn't BS - this is reality. So I stand by my comment that you've had an adverse effect on other people completely apart from me or PL. Bravo...

If anyone is upset that I have pulled Spaghetti then I have a response to that. What did YOU do to contribute to Spaghetti?

And I'll ask you again - what do you want? A Medal? Why did you create Spaghetti? So people would worship you? Is that what this is about? People used your software, and some of them liked it. Isn't that enough for you?

How did YOU make it worth my time to spend hours coding, responding to your emails, and release new versions with enhancements and bug fixes?

Dude... It's FREE SOFTWARE! At best you're going to get a "thank you" from your users, and maybe once in a while you'll get some bug reports. You're acting like you expect people to throw money at you! Grow up!

Or did you just play some shows that I happened to share or use it as an ILDA file viewer?

Is there something in the software that says specifically that it can't be used as an ILDA file viewer? Who *cares* how people use it? The fact that people are using your software (and enjoyinig it) is proof of the fact that you've accomplished something. How dare you dictate to them exactly how (or to what extent) they use it! (Sheesh - and you call *me* arrogant?)

If you think that I am a jerk by doing this then you don't think my time is very valuable and I don't wish to help you.

I don't think your time is any more valuable than mine, Gary. I, too, have devoted a lot of my time to PL, and to the community as a whole. OK, I'm not writing laser show software. But that doesn't mean that I spend any less time working to help others than you do.

If someone can give me an honest and good reason that I should continue working on Spaghetti, I will.

I can give you an honest and very good reason to continue. There are several people here that use your software because they can't afford anything else. There are people that *love* lasers but can't afford to get into the hobby. *I* was one of those people for a long time. (Like, from 7th grade until I was in my middle 30's.) So by providing a free alternative to the commercial products, you are allowing *more* people to get into lasers. This may not benefit you personally, but it *will* benefit the community as a whole. (And really, it's not supposed to be about you, or me, or any one person anyway.)

LaserBoy has been in development nearly 5 years now, and it still only has a small (but devout) following. In time, I expect that Spaghetti will grow in popularity as well. (After all, your software has only been out for a year.) But if you keep pulling the plug every time someone fails to stroke your ego, people are not going to pick it up for fear of being abandoned.

Or maybe if I see someone creating shows and sharing them I will.

I seriously contemplated working on shows for your software. Several times, in fact. But every time I got close to doing so, I'd see you take another shot at someone - either Bill, or another Pangolin user, or even James. And I thought to myself, why am I thinking about helping him? He's a jerk and he doesn't care about the community! He's just in this for his own self-gratification. So I gave up.

But let me point out one thing: Did you notice that the two times you specifically asked for my help I *immediately* responded? No matter that you didn't use the mamba files or the info about beam attenuation maps.... The fact is, when you ASKED, I responded. Even though I still didn't care for you. Now, why would I do that? Because you were working on a project that held promise for the community at large. And I make this promise to you now: If you continue your work with Spaghetti, I *will* convert my shows to run on Spaghetti - despite our differences - and I will also offer any assistance I can to make it better.

So - time to put your money where your mouth is. Can you work with someone whom you think is an asshole?

Adam

[White-Light]

1st, to White-Light, your comments show your true colors and the reason I refused to help you is because of this. All I did was say that I was "Sorry I can't help you with that"

My true colours is an interesting concept since I've never said anything negative towards you before this thread.

Your "sorry I can't help you with that" quote was sarcastic, you know it and I know it.

It was an attack on me for pointing out your latest version had a problem and it was a wider attack on the whole community here making it clear that you were no longer willing to help anyone on here because of what was said about your negativity again towards Pangolin in another thread concerning Patents.

Don't pretend you couldn't help. You're the developer, you wrote the code, you could have helped had you wanted to. However, you'd thrown the toys out of the pram (baby buggy) over what had been said in the other thread about your once again snide remarks towards Pangolin products and this was your way of getting back at the community - by withdrawing your support.

As for what I said in my feedback, its all there to be read on page 7 of this thread and I stand by everything I said as being polite, fair and useful feedback.

[mixedgas]

[QUOTE=Things;79666]Ugh there goes the chances for hobbyists. Both James and Gary are gone now, and Gary no longer has Spaghetti on his site


LFI PLAYER WORKS WITH SOUNDCARDS

STEVE

[carmangary]

Buffo, what state of reality do you exist in? Do you think I really sit at home and write Spaghetti just for the hell of it? When I give it away I DAMN WELL DO expect something back in return. It has been stated multiple times that I expect people to write shows. It was on my Google Group. I probably mentioned it on here more than once. I didn't write it so poor people could do laser shows or for me to get some award for being a saint. Lehman has his reasons for writing LaserBoy for free. He wants to wow the world with his brilliance. You obviously have your reasons for reading every post on PL and offering your input. And I have my reasons for writing Spaghetti and you obviously missed that point. I don't want thanks. I don't want awards. I don't want money. I just wanted people to get involved. Maybe it would have happened a year from now, or maybe tomorrow. But so far there has been nothing and I don't feel like banging my head against a wall that might not fall down. I guess Bill was right when he said what I was doing wouldn't catch on. I admit defeat. No biggie. Spaghetti does everything I need it to do and if it doesn't I can change it so it does. So it hasn't been a wasted effort for me. What has been a wasted effort has been sharing it with everyone else. The only people I feel like I let down are Joachim and Ihor of MediaLas and RIYA lasers since they donated hardware to me for testing. Honestly, the only reason I kept it going for as long as I did was because of them. Those two have been gems in support of me and if I do cool off and decide to continue Spaghetti it will be because of them. But if I do, things will be different. I will add licensing so it only gets used by people I want using it. But, that's just talk. For now, it is staying on the shelf.

The LaserPointerForums bit is typical of you. There were two posts from users in regards to Spaghetti and you made it sound like I disrupted the entire forum and that everyone hates me. Maybe someone did send you email. Most likely it was someone thanking you for being an ass and ruining it for everyone. No one sent me any PMs or hate mail, that's for sure. Yep, just another overblown issue taken completely out of context by you. I welcome everyone to go on over to LaserPointerForums and read the Spaghetti thread under Laser Shows to find out how much of a disruption I really was. When you do, I think that you will find that there was no disruption at all and that Buffo is just pulling another Buffo.

Anyway, Buffo, you just don't get it or enjoy dragging people through the mud. But, I think you just don't get it, and that's too bad for you.

White-Light, I immediately saw where you were coming from. Don't play innocent with me. As the saying goes, you can't joke the joker. First you were a jerk. Then when you didn't get what you wanted you cried and said you didn't mean anything by it. Then when I pulled Spaghetti you started saying things like you thought I was a jerk all along and that I suck at this and that. Even if you didn't mean anything by it I am still glad I didn't help you after seeing what you said. All I did was respond with "Sorry I can't help you." There was no name calling. I just refused to help you. I don't owe you anything so don't expect like you deserve anything. If you only use Spaghetti as an ILDA viewer I don't care to help you. You aren't using it for what I intended and you aren't contributing to anything by it. Buffo is right that when you load Spaghetti it doesn't say you can't use it as an ILDA viewer but just because it doesnt say that doesn't mean thats how it is. Buffo likes to make assumptions that aren't true. That's why is he always making and ASS out of U and ME. (yea old joke but deffinitely applies here). When he writes some free software maybe he can determine what his policy is. But he has no business stating what he thinks my policy of use should be. He doesn't even know anything about Spaghetti. It it funny how it is wrong of me to say I don't like how Pangolin does business yet it is OK for him to talk about how my customer service and terms of use should be? What a hypocrite. Anyway, now I am just babbling like a Buffo so off I go until the next pile of BS drops here. (Hopefully, there will be no more so I can go off in peace.)

[buffo]

Do you think I really sit at home and write Spaghetti just for the hell of it? When I give it away I DAMN WELL DO expect something back in return.

Well, then you're a jerk - pure and simple. Free software with strings attached. How lovely.

It has been stated multiple times that I expect people to write shows.

WAKE UP! Not everyone is creative. Not everyone wants to make shows. Most people just want to look at the beams in the air and go OHH and AHHH! Who are you to try and change that?

I have my reasons for writing Spaghetti and you obviously missed that point.

You are right! I missed your point completely. I had no idea you were such a dictator. I foolishly assumed you released Spaghetti for everyone to use and enjoy. I knew you were hoping that people would write shows, but I didn't know it was a REQUIREMENT.

In fact, I'll wager that most people using Spaghetti right now didn't realise this requirement existed either.

I just wanted people to get involved. Maybe it would have happened a year from now, or maybe tomorrow.

People *are* involved. Maybe not to the extent you want them to be, but there are people using your software. Give it time and more people will be using it.

Oh, wait... That won't work because you've pulled the plug.

What has been a wasted effort has been sharing it with everyone else.

This goes to show what a selfish jerk you are. People are using (and enjoying) your software and you think it's a wasted effort. I submit that it is *you* who is an asshole here.

The only people I feel like I let down are Joachim and Ihor of MediaLas and RIYA lasers

WRONG! You also let down all the people that were using your software. Don't you see that?

The LaserPointerForums bit is typical of you.

No, it's yet another example of your attitude pissing people off. Don't you get it?

Anyway, Buffo, you just don't get it or enjoy dragging people through the mud. But, I think you just don't get it, and that's too bad for you.

Oh I get it. I get it 100% now. You don't want to help people. You don't want to do anything good for the community. You just want people to write laser shows so you can watch them. And when you didn't get enough shows for your software, you decided to stop sharing. I get it... You are a selfish jerk.

As for the goal of starting a movement towards free laser shows (as opposed to shows created with commercial software) I think you are giving up way to early. In time (a few more years perhaps), you might have built a loyal following and had more shows to enjoy. But no matter. It's your software, and if you want to hoard it, that's your choice. It's funny though, because by withholding Spaghetti you are moving *away* from your goal. Your world will shrink. But then again, that's what you wanted too, isn't it? You certainly pushed people away well enough.

Buffo likes to make assumptions that aren't true.

You like to ignore the truth. You have pissed off many people here, and at least a handful on LPF, yet you *persist* in your belief that everyone else is the problem, and lash out at them rather than looking at yourself. Your last post made it clear that introspection is a foreign concept to you.

You claim to be at peace, yet your posts betray your anger. People offer to work with you and you reject them. You are, in every sense of the word, an asshole, and have been so named by numerous people, yet you continue to deny even the possibility that they could be right.

You made a claim above that you "don't want to spend time in this forum when 90% of the posts are from assholes." There are nearly 70,000 posts here. 90% of them would be 63,000 posts. That encompases nearly all the users here - not just me. So, 90% of the members are assholes, and you're not? That's so nutty that I'm starting to wonder, in all seriousness, if you don't need to be seeing a counselor. Because any sane person would at least start to question themselves when faced with those numbers.

he has no business stating what he thinks my policy of use should be.

I have every right to comment on your selfish usage policy. Who are you to deny that right? Seriously now, you are talking like a crazy man. "Only Gary can offer an opinion of Spaghetti" What sort of nonsense is this?

now I am just babbling

You certainly are. You sound like you're off your rocker. Seriously!

Adam

[White-Light]

White-Light, I immediately saw where you were coming from. Don't play innocent with me. As the saying goes, you can't joke the joker. First you were a jerk. Then when you didn't get what you wanted you cried and said you didn't mean anything by it. Then when I pulled Spaghetti you started saying things like you thought I was a jerk all along and that I suck at this and that. Even if you didn't mean anything by it I am still glad I didn't help you after seeing what you said. All I did was respond with "Sorry I can't help you." There was no name calling. I just refused to help you. I don't owe you anything so don't expect like you deserve anything. If you only use Spaghetti as an ILDA viewer I don't care to help you. You aren't using it for what I intended and you aren't contributing to anything by it. Buffo is right that when you load Spaghetti it doesn't say you can't use it as an ILDA viewer but just because it doesnt say that doesn't mean thats how it is. Buffo likes to make assumptions that aren't true. That's why is he always making and ASS out of U and ME. (yea old joke but deffinitely applies here). When he writes some free software maybe he can determine what his policy is. But he has no business stating what he thinks my policy of use should be. He doesn't even know anything about Spaghetti. It it funny how it is wrong of me to say I don't like how Pangolin does business yet it is OK for him to talk about how my customer service and terms of use should be? What a hypocrite. Anyway, now I am just babbling like a Buffo so off I go until the next pile of BS drops here. (Hopefully, there will be no more so I can go off in peace.)

Gary the only person trying to disguise anything on these forums is you.

This isn't about the lack of help, this is about the sarcastic attack on me and the community as a whole through the withdrawal of your support AFTER another attack on Pangolin and the reaction it provoked from Adam and others who were once again forced to step in to point out you were out of order.

As for who the jerk is, I'll let the others decide from your behaviour over the last 18 months.

There is a lot more I could say and a lot more I could bring up but I think somehow the best thing for everyone on here is to grant you your wish and let you slip away in peace.

I'm prepared to take the mature stance even if you aren't.

[carmangary]

Let me put it to you this way. I am a software developer by trade so I know exactly how much an hour of my time as a developer is worth. Based on that, I have invested literally thousands of dollars worth of time on Spaghetti. I don't know for sure but at least $40K worth of my time has been put into it. I think I have earned the right to say how my stuff can be used. And it isn't like I placed a timebomb in it so that people can't use the existing version anymore. They can copy it all they want and share it amongst themselves. I don't care. It's still out there for them to use. I'm just not devoting anymore time to it.

I devote thousands of dollars worth of time writing code and I am the jerk because I expected a little bit of people's time that use it. That blows my mind. Really, the more you talk the more you convince me that ever giving it away was a stupid thing to do. I am assuming that you are a maniac in your reasoning, but if I am wrong and people actually do expect me to continue to work on Spaghetti just because it is a swell thing to do then screw you all. I'll go back to spending time with my wife and kids on Saturday's since they actually do show some appreciation for my time.

[drlava]

Spaghetti was(is?) a great program for shows - intuitive interface, good features, wide compatibility. It seemed like you were doing a lot of things right and you do have the perogative to not support people at your discretion. Give us a clear idea of your goal for spaghetti and more people can feel comfortable with it. One thing Buffo's right about in this thread is that leaving and pulling it gives the feeling of instability for the future of the software that will make users shy away.

At any rate, i wish you success with your future plans for spaghetti. Choice is good!

Buffo, there are a lot of younger people at LPF that may complain if something that was free is taken away. Quoting them says less about carmangary and more about the state of too many people today - thinking they deserve handouts!

And I make this promise to you now: If you continue your work with Spaghetti, I *will* convert my shows to run on Spaghetti - despite our differences - and I will also offer any assistance I can to make it better.

sounds like one more good reason to keep working on it, others probably feel the same way...

[carmangary]

And let me leave by just responding to this one:

WAKE UP! Not everyone is creative. Not everyone wants to make shows. Most people just want to look at the beams in the air and go OHH and AHHH! Who are you to try and change that?

Well, then what the hell were the doing with it? There were no shows to watch other than the ones I converted to work with it. Do I have to write the software AND the shows? I'm DEFINITELY not interested in that.