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Thread: New laser shows from International Laser Productions

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by carmangary View Post
    I think that the ILP show is wrong and distasteful but I respect anyones right to say what they thing or express their views. That laser show was not forced on anyone and the guy has been polite about it despite the mudslinging going on here. In USA we don't ban books or torch authors when we don't agree with what they say. I am think some of you are taking it to far.
    The first amendment protects citizens against *government* censorship. There is nothing in the bill of rights that says that the *people* can't censor things. (It's called a free-market for a reason.)

    Also, just as Terrence has a right to make an offensive laser show, we have a right to complain about it. There is no book burning going on here. No one has broken into the offices of ILP and stolen the hard drives where the laser shows are stored and then tossed them onto a bonfire. Terrence is still free to sell his shows to anyone foolish enough to buy them.

    ILDA is an international organization that aims to promote the image of the laser show industry. As such, it is in ILDA's best interest to *avoid* associating with organizations or individuals that would reflect poorly on the industry as a whole. This is exactly why they have chosen to condemn the "disco inferno" show that ILP produced.

    This is not a freedom of speech issue. First, Terrance isn't even a US Citizen. Second, even if he were, he is still free to produce whatever laser show(s) he wants to. He is simply *not* welcome to promote those laser shows using the ILDA mailing list. It's not the government that is censoring him, it's ILDA (and to a lesser extent, the members of PhotonLexicon now as well.)

    Also, you are only getting about 1/5th of the story. There is a lot more happening on the ILDA list server with regard to this particular show, and to Terrence's general behavior in the past. Saying that he's been "polite" is innacurate at best. (I'm sure DLSI-Jon's posts above gave you some hint of this.)

    Bottom line - I find the show distasteful. I also believe that Terrence's political views are not based on reality. (Despite the fact that previous US foreign policy may have *provoked* the attacks, it does not equate to Terrence's stated belief that "9/11 was an inside job".) Finally, I believe that futher association with him can only serve to tarnish the reputation of other laserists. That is why I support ILDA's actions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Laser View Post
    Did I missed something here.? Unfortunately ILP removed flash of that show so I don't know whats going on there. So can't comment.
    Yes, you did. Following the backlash from the laserist community, the flash animation of the laser show in question was removed from the ILP website. I'm sure several people have copies of the animation (it was even posted to YouTube for a while), but given the offensive nature of the show, I don't see the point in posting it again.
    But what I can comment is on Looney Toons. Did ILP and LMR got a license from Warner Bros to recreate and sell those frames?. Who is fooling who here. If they did get a license I would gladly withdraw and apologise.
    Quite possibly, no. I doubt that LMR did, and I *seriously* doubt that ILP did. Nonetheless, two wrongs don't make a right. At the very least, both participants are guilty of copyright infringement. (Assuming no license existed.)

    However, copyright infringement isn't really what this discussion is about. I believe DLSI-Jon brought it up to shed some light on Terrence's checkered past, but I'm not sure.

    Adam

  2. #42
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    I think the problem here ILP is not that you touched on 911, although that is sensitive but how you did it.

    To portray the events of 911 as a single set of frames in a wider show about many terrorist acts, to a suitable sound track, whilst maybe a step too far for some, would never the less have approval from others as a genuine portrayal of events and of the times we live in.

    The trouble with your show is that more or less the whole show is centered around the 911 attacks with the same images being shown over and over again and the towers and burning bodies being shown falling them to a chorus of "burn baby burn, disco inferno".

    Thats neither respectful nor balanced. Instead as others have said, it comes across as nothing less than a celebration and glamourisation of the burning of the towers and the deaths of those people.

    Worse still, if you had made a misjudgement in the balancing of your show, to come here and apologise and maybe rebalance it with other images, would have won you many friends in the end who'd have respected your admission of a mistake.

    Instead you've chosen to confront people, insisting that your show is great for the world and thats its glamourous portrayal of the deaths of those people and those events is perfectly acceptable and that you can do what you like. Whilst its true you can do what you like, such an attitude in this context, only engenders hatred towards you and towards religions (rightly or wrongly) associated with this event. This isn't helpful for your adopted country or its religion as a whole, think about it!

  3. #43
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    Well said, RGBLaserFan!!
    RR

    Metrologic HeNe 3.3mw Modulated laser, 2 Radio Shack motors, and a broken mirror.
    1979.
    Sweet.....

  4. #44
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    Who said anything about 1st amendment? I'm just talking about the calls for banning the guy and for deleting all of his shows from harddrives. That is most definitely book burning.

    I don't find his video any more offensive than the X-rated stuff that has been posted here in the past. I guess people pick and choose what they think is offensive, though.

  5. #45
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    Arrow

    "Book burning" is the forced removal (that is, theft) of literary works from the library (and private homes) and destroying them forever.

    Deleting laser shows on your hard drive is called emptying the recycle bin. It is a voluntary action that many of us do on a regular basis.

    You'll notice that DZ didn't say that he was smashing his Pangolin install CD's. (That's where those ILP shows are ultimately stored.) And even if he did so that, it's still not the same as book burning. Pangolin still includes those shows with every LD-2000 system. DZ's choice to not use them does not affect anyone else. You can still choose to install them or not (assuming you had a Pangolin system).

    As an analogy, if I go out and buy a disco record and then decide that after listening to it, yep - disco still sucks, I have every right to rent a steamroller and crush that piece of vinyl into oblivion. I paid for it, it's mine to do with as I please. This isn't "book burning" by any stretch.

    Book burning is when you don't get the chance to choose what to read, or what to buy, or what to avoid, because the government decides for you. To call this episode a "book burning" is insulting to those that have actually suffered through the real thing.

    Likewise, if you don't like x-rated shows, you are free to delete them from your hard drive. (My Mamba Black CD came with some x-rated material on it.) Though I find it incredible that you are more offended by nudity than by the blatant disrespect for human life present in the "Disco Inferno" show.

    What is going on here is a classic example of a free market economy. Someone produced something that is offensive, and the community responded by 1) not buying his content, and 2) complaining about the offensive nature of the show. The result will be that ILP will probably sell fewer laser shows this year.

    As I said above, banning someone because they are offensive is 100% justified. There is nothing that says we have to accomodate all points of view, no matter how deranged or delusional they are. Likewise, choosing to associate with someone that is patently offensive drags the reputation of the entire group down to that level.

    It's not just that he produced an over-the-top offensive and in-your-face laser show (which is *far* more insulting than any pornographic laser file I've ever seen), but that when confronted by it he vigorously defended his show as both an expression of free speech (which it was) and as a true and accurate representation of "the times we live in" (which is was not).

    On the ILDA list server he challenged everyone to "wake up" and see that his version of events represented the truth. From the tone of his posts, it seemed that he was *happy* that several thousand people died when the towers fell. That's not the type of person I want to be associated with. Do you?

    As I said before, just as he is free to express his opinion, so are we. My opinion is that I don't want to associate with him. Furthermore, membership in ILDA (or any social, trade, or professional organization for that matter) is always subject to the whims of the people running the show. (Or at the very least, subject to the requirements of the bylaws, if any.) Basically, if you act like an asshole, you're out. Life is too short to have to deal with people like that. (Most people learn this rule in elementary school.)

    I don't advocate banning someone for life because of a single infraction, unless that infraction is so egregious as to demonstrate a complete lack of respect for the group. In this case, the infraction meets that criteria. Furthermore, Terrence's past infractions (not to mention his vitriolic posts on the ILDA list server) offer more evidence that he is, in fact, not concerned with the good of the group at all. Thus I have no qualms about ILDA's decision, or the drubbing he's received here on PhotonLexicon by other members.

    Adam

  6. #46
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    Default ILDA's repsonse to Disco Inferno

    This arrived in my email last night from Patrick Murphy

    To ILDA Members and interested laserists –

    Recently there has been much discussion on the Laserist List, about the “Disco Inferno” show from International Laser Productions. The show depicts the events of Sept. 11 2001 set to the music “Disco Inferno” (also known by its refrain, “Burn baby burn”). Some subscribers on the Laserist List strongly objected to the show being advertised on the Laserist List. They asked that ILP be removed. ILDA’s Executive Director did remove ILP from the Laserist List, with the provision that the ILDA Board would review the issue at its next meeting, October 7.

    The Board met yesterday as scheduled. We had a detailed discussion about the reaction to Disco Inferno, and related issues such as the List’s purpose and any content restrictions. After detailed consideration, the following motion was submitted and was passed:

    The ILDA Board understands why many Members and laserists strongly objected to the "Disco Inferno" laser show from International Laser Productions. The Board also wishes the Laserist List to be as free a communication channel as possible. In this particular case, the content, while objectionable to many, is not illegal. Therefore, after careful consideration and just for this particular case, the Board votes to reinstate ILP's subscription to the Laserist List, if ILP wishes.

    Like I said I've moved on, I have better things to do with my time.

    Happy lasing

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by buffo View Post
    "Book burning" is the forced removal (that is, theft) of literary works from the library (and private homes) and destroying them forever.

    Deleting laser shows on your hard drive is called emptying the recycle bin. It is a voluntary action that many of us do on a regular basis.
    I didn't really expect you to take it literally. Come on now.

  8. #48
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    Default Over and Out

    And just for the record.

    I did not make the original post on this thread.

    ILP

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Internatlaser View Post
    And just for the record.

    I did not make the original post on this thread.

    ILP
    I know you didn't and that is part of why I think you have been given a raw deal here. As I posted earlier, I don't agree with the statement you made in your show and I find it insulting. But, you did not force me to go look at it nor have you been impolite about any of this so I really don't have a problem with you or your other work.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by carmangary View Post
    Who said anything about 1st amendment? I'm just talking about the calls for banning the guy and for deleting all of his shows from harddrives. That is most definitely book burning.

    I don't find his video any more offensive than the X-rated stuff that has been posted here in the past. I guess people pick and choose what they think is offensive, though.
    How celebration of death can be equal a celebration of sex?. I did show some of X rated stuff to my friends on a big screen they were laughing their pants off. I very doubt that they gonna laugh about 911. Anyways I hav't seen that animation. Can someone kindly give me a link. Thanx.
    I hired an Italian guy to do my wires. Now they look like spaghetti!

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