how do i reduce point density of ilda files

[badger1666]

how do i Reduce the point density of an ild file(at a given sample rate) reduce flicker of the displayed image is there an easy way to do this or do i have to manualy edit the frames .
this is what bill said i need to do, not worry about scanning faster than the 30k limit of my fb3 i just dont get it i thought if you want to display complex images you scan faster to get rid of flicker
any care to explain it in a easy to understand way

[buffo]

i just dont get it i thought if you want to display complex images you scan faster to get rid of flicker
any care to explain it in a easy to understand way

If you scan faster, you can reduce the flicker, yes. The problem is that some ILDA files won't look right if you bump up the scan rate, because they are counting on the 30K scan rate to accomplish the effect.

The effect is called "pulling points", and is frequently used on very complex images. The idea is that when you're crating a frame, you intentionally place fewer points that are normally necessary to create a shape. (That is, they are "pulled" too far apart for the scanners to actually reach them.) This means that the scanners will actually be ballistic while scanning those points. That is, they'll be running under maximum acceleration and will never reach the desired point.

This can be used to create curves, circles, and ovals with just a few points. There is a famous ILDA animation file of a mermaid that makes use of this technique. If you look at the file in a frame editor you see all the round bubles and the ovals of her eyes are only made up of 4 or 5 points each. They look very coarse and pointy in the frame editor. But when you scan the pattern at 30K, those coarse shapes are smoothed out into nice rounded shapes. (Note that the center circle in the ILDA test pattern is another example of this... It's actually a 12-sided polygon that lies completely outside the center square, but the scanners never reach those points, so it looks like a circle when it's projected.)

This is why most people still scan at 30K... The vast majority of the artwork is designed to run at 30K.

Adam

[Pangolin]

If you are talking about from LiveQUICK, it's pretty easy. You just edit the Vector Settings (in the settings menu), then force an upload.

If you are talking about LAStudio, the process is similar, but I am not quite sure where to tell you to look (what menu, etc.).

And likewise, in LivePRO, each cue has its own settings, or they can use the master settings. Generally you are looking for something that says "Vector settings", then look for a slider that says "Density" and make the number larger.

Bill

[badger1666]

thanks buffo and bill
i get it now

[Zoof]

does Pangolin software automatically `pull points' when the density is low for the complexity of the shapes - or is this something that needs to be done manually?

[Pangolin]

does Pangolin software automatically `pull points' when the density is low for the complexity of the shapes - or is this something that needs to be done manually?

It depends on which Pangolin software you are talking about. Remember, there is a lot of it...

The LD2000 series tends to take a more manual approach, at least when in "Point Oriented" mode. When in "Vector Oriented" mode, it is, essentially 100% automatic. LD2000 supports four different kinds of frames -- Point, Vector, Raster, and Abstract. LAStudio is probably somewhere between "manual" and "automatic".

Software that we have released over the last few years -- including LiveQUICK -- tends to try to hide a lot of details from the user, and tries to be, essentially "fully automatic". Same with the entire Lasershow Converter series. People just input graphical content and get out laser graphics.

Now, here's the really fun part. In BEYOND, there are NO POINTS AT ALL !! (Remember, we figured out a completely different way to control scanners...)

Heck, maybe in our next-next-next-generation software, there won't even be scanners .

Best regards,

William Benner

[Jem]

Heck, maybe in our next-next-next-generation software, there won't even be scanners .

What !!! ... I sincerely hope there is... I've just forked out for some 60k CT6215's

Thanks for the great service Bill

Jem

[Zoof]

OK, thanks. So in vector mode (LD2000) the on-screen representation is the laser output while point placement may be different - e.g., when viewing the ILDA test pattern on screen in vector mode, is the circle inside the box?

Now, here's the really fun part. In BEYOND, there are NO POINTS AT ALL !! (Remember, we figured out a completely different way to control scanners...)

This is where I become really interested , can we expect to have a sneak preview soon?
Will it work with our conventional 30K scanners?

[Pangolin]

OK, thanks. So in vector mode (LD2000) the on-screen representation is the laser output while point placement may be different - e.g., when viewing the ILDA test pattern on screen in vector mode, is the circle inside the box?

While explaining the difference between Vector- and Point-oriented, Greg Makhov and I often say that Vector-oriented is an "engineering approach" while Point-oriented is an "artistic approach". Both are valid -- it just depends on how you are more comfortable thinking. Most European systems are purely (and exclusively) Vector-oriented.

And yes, in Vector-oriented, it is much more WYSIWYG.

Incidentally, it is not easy to show the ILDA Test Pattern on a system that is exclusively Vector-oriented. Usually you have to change all kinds of system settings to, essentially, forcibly turn off the interpolation that naturally happens inside vector-oriented systems. Most people don't even know how to turn off the interplation so, often, from a user standpoint it is felt that the ILDA Test Pattern is unusable with such systems.

This is where I become really interested , can we expect to have a sneak preview soon?

I have thought about putting sneak preview videos, showing the use of our two separate editors in BEYOND (one we will call "wireframe editor", which is the classic 3D wireframe editor like everyone is accustomed to seeing in laser software -- but having a different take on how you do these things, and another that we will call the "solid modeling editor", which is a complete 3D Studio MAX-like toolset, but made specifically for lasers). But so far all of my time is spent managing Pangolin, and creating these things in the first place. There's not much time left over for making videos...

Will it work with our conventional 30K scanners?

Yes it will work with any set of scanners.

Bill