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Thread: pangolin draw 3d question

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    west sussex uk
    Posts
    2,279

    Default pangolin draw 3d question

    hi all when editng ild files in draw 3d and you are deleteing points you dont want why does it automaticaly join to another point some where leaving a line you dont want and as you try to delete that line it just jumps to another point following you around, somtimes you can be lucky and it stops then it will start again at some other random point , iam trying to clean up files created with trace it so they display properly,
    is there a better programe to use to clean up ilda files because with 3d draw you can only save as lpc files and i want save as ild as i want to share my chrismas files on the ftp server

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Rotorua New Zealand
    Posts
    528

    Default

    Think of the lines (points) like a pen on paper that you can't lift off the page... You can turn on & off the ink (blanking lines or blanked points) but imagine you just aren't allowed to lift the pen off the paper..
    When the "pen" has traced all the way around it will start again (next scan of the frame).

    Why it is jumping from point to point as you delete is probably because thats the way Trace has given you the result.(its a bit like snot on yor fingers you can't shake it off) As you delete a point the lines connects with another point (remember the "pen" cannot lift off the page, in other words the scanners have to carry on their journey to the end of the frame and then start again.) You can't "cut" the line all you can do is paint it black (=no ink or in other words blanked)

    You can actually see this "journey" the "pen" takes in Pangolin if you go over to the points line on the left and scroll along you will see the "pen" (white dot) step through exectly as it will be traced when you run it so you can see if it is going to be a logical path or some weird path.

    Have you tried the renumber feature to lower the point count ?

    Auto tracing can sometimes give funny results with many many points. Try the different tracing / editing options. Get the points down closer to where you need to be before you start to edit it.

    There is also the question of the "logic" of how it drew the line. Sometimes in the end it is simpler and better to hand trace a frame putting in the points yourself. You can also imagine for yourself how the mirrors are working (this is the "pen") so you can make it way more efficient.

    Like, you have one mirror going left and right (X) and one going up and down(Y). Imagine in your mind as you trace it out which is the most logical and efficient path so the mirrors don't have to abruptly stop and jump all over the frame.

    This makes a huge difference in flicker rate and point count... look for a thread a few weeks back on the "Carlberg" logo and download each of the samples given... you will see more is not always better likewise less is not always better.

    If you have to get it right with the least points possible do it by hand.

    Cheers

    Ray
    NZ
    Last edited by Pitts; 10-19-2008 at 15:38.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    west sussex uk
    Posts
    2,279

    Default thanks

    thanks pitts
    paint the offending lines black doh! now why did i not think of that
    i must have been having a blonde moment

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Rotorua New Zealand
    Posts
    528

    Default

    Hi again,

    Although you can "paint" the lines black you do need to remember the scanner mirrors will still go to that point.
    So although you may not see the line the scanners ("pen") are still drawing it with the "ink" off so to speak.

    The scanners may still find this work load too high and you could still end up with a very flickery frame. (say that fast a few times !!)

    When you paint a line black (blank) just remember the "work" is still being done behind the scenes by the scanners.

    A far better way is to get rid of unwanted points so the scanners are not working any harder than they need to.
    There are a number of tools you can use in Pangolin like renumber, eliminate blanking jumps etc but if the frame is just hectic these may not fix the issue. (you know like computers junk in = junk out)

    Every where you see a dot no matter what color including black the scanner is going to go there !!! Kinda a waste of time and energy if you don't need that point. Be careful not to delete all the points at corners etc... these are there to act like little "brakes" to slow down the scanners so it can "turn" a corner.. if you kill too many of these points you get some weird overshoot things happening.

    Try that suggestion I made by going to the points bar and scrolling through the points you will see just how hard the scanners are trying to work for you. (watch the little dot draw its way around the frame in slow motion you'll soon get the idea and really learn to respect the scanners and the engineers that make them)

    Its even harder when they have to go back and forward when there is no need. This seems to me to be quite common with auto tracing outputs if there are a lot of points in close proximity to each other... kinda one step forward two back then forward again type of thing.

    This is probably why you are seeing the line jump back and fore as you delete the points. (its going to the nearest next point it drew)

    Cant stress enough.... have a look by scrolling through on the points slider on the left side just under the frame slider.... you will see exactly which way the scanner has to go to draw the frame. It also shows you the color at that location including black (blank)..

    So just painting it black may or may not help your particular frame.

    Sometimes I have found its just as quick and way more efficient (for the scanners) if you do it by hand..

    Cheers

    Ray
    NZ

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