Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 33

Thread: Since this is how you all feel, adios. I'm outta here.

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Pflugerville, TX, USA
    Posts
    1,977

    Default Since this is how you all feel, adios. I'm outta here.

    In the interest of maintaining decorum in the forums and avoiding a public flame war, I've decided to answer your question in a PM. You asked me:

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by carmangary
    Why do you feel the need to comment on everything whether or not it has anything to do with you? Just askin'.

    The answer has two parts. In general, I comment on lots of things here that don't directly deal with me, because I participate actively in the discussions here. However, in this case there is a more specific reason: You were acting like a jerk, and I (gently) called you on it. I quote from you again:

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by carmangary
    Oh yea, I am sure you read each and every sentence of each and every post.

    This was in response to Rob (Stanwax) when he complained that you obviously hadn't read his post before replying.

    Instead of wondering why one of the more active members of the forum would take the time to personally call you out on something, and maybe examining your posting history to see if you'd been screwing up lately, you lashed out in anger with a brainless reply. Brainless, because *unlike* you, most of the other senior members really *do* read each and every post in a thread before they reply.

    You seem to think that you don't need to read other people's posts. You've said so before, and I recall a recent thread where you and I argued about this fact. Evidently you haven't learned that not reading what other people have written is *really* arrogant. That is *not* considered appropriate behavior for a discussion forum.

    My reply to you was considerably restrained. Your sarcastic answer (in the form of a question) simply proves to me that you have NO IDEA how you are being perceived by others.

    Since you've questioned my judgment about your actions in the past, let me cut to the chase. I get PM's about your conduct here on the forums at least twice a week, and over the past few weeks the pace has quickened considerably. Granted, you're not the worst offender. There are a select few that generate similar messages on a *daily* basis. (You can probably figure out who they are.)

    With the permission of the senders, most of these messages get forwarded to Spec. Here is a recent sampling with the names removed (except for yours):

    Quote:
    But really, the behavior of ****, Carmangary, and just a very few others is not helping the end-goal of the forum.

    There seems to be a little gang forming (****, Carmangary etc) that are indulging in slagging Bill/Pangolin off at every opportunity and I think it would be a great shame if Bill just thought "Sod the lot of ya" and stopped visiting the forum because of the few bad apples.

    I just hope all the **** / Carmangary bullshit doesn't drive Bill off.

    It's probably a good think I'm not the Admin! **** would be gone - along with ALL of his posts - and Carmangary would be just 1 strike shy of receiving the same!

    but still wouldn't mind if **** and Carmangary just disappeared...

    The discussion was headed in the right direction... Then Carmangary shits all over Bill. I've fucking had it with that guy.

    my patience is gone, the stability of the known world is at stake and diplomacy has failed. Time for a pre-emptive surgical strike.

    At this point, I wouldn't mind loosing both of them. Fucking assholes. I just got a PM from ****, and he feels the same way we do.

    **** might come around, but he's got a lot of **** and Carmangary in him.
    So you see, I'm not just picking on you. You *have* been acting like a jerk, and lots of people have noticed it.

    I tried in all sincerity to be gentle in my reply to you in that thread. My original post was something a lot more direct - something like "Stop being such a jerk", but I re-wrote it before I posted. I thought the final version was quite tame. I had hoped you would pay attention. Would it have had more impact if I had just said "stop acting like a brat?"

    Adam

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Orlando, FL - USA
    Posts
    1,768

    Default

    Hi guys,

    For what it's worth, I have not taken strong offense to what Gary has written in the past. There have been a few rough posts, but... what the heck. I think even Buffo might have had just as harsh or more harsh words towards me in the distant past...

    I am not quite sure about the source of the roughness between Gary and I, but in a recent public forum post, Gary wrote that he wanted to burry the hatchet. Since then it seems his postings have been pretty calm -- at least that's my impression. I have also offered my thanks as well as my handshake in a recent private message with him.

    I hope to be able to win over Gary some day, the same way that I won over both Buffo and the Admin of PL. In the mean time, I hope people aren't bugging Gary for something he has recently reformed...

    I do appreciate people trying to offer kind words or some kind of "defense" on my behalf. I guess I wish I would have been asked first ...

    One answer to all of this -- not only the few rough posts Gary has made in the past, but the many more that were made by others, not only toward me but toward Buffo, etc. is to establish some kind of "standards" or "forum rules". As I have recently joined a few other non-related forums, I notice that all of them have standards and rules prohibiting flaming and such, and have in place the possibility to delete posts or take sanctions as a result of such activities. Even the Pangolin LaserChat forum has rules... I know that the Admin of PL wanted to keep it loosey-goosey and let people make an ass of themselves if they wanted to, and sometimes that's fun to watch too but it really isn't advancing the technology or the discussion. So in that context, I just think some kind of "standards" or "rules" is not such a bad thing...

    Bill

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    284

    Default

    I don't really follow your bashing in this forum because I've seen enough of it over the years. It's a general internet-forum problem and imho just a waste of time.
    It's a fact: when your community grows and you refuse to moderate and set up some basic rules (for example: bashing or this endless "getting off-topic" thing) the situation will escalate sooner or later like it has happened here.
    I've seen many forums go down because the community was getting more and more estranged, it's business of the administration and his moderators to stop that and obtain a comfortable climate. German LF-forum is no exception here :-(

    Just my 0.02 EUR...

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    My momentum is too precisely determined :S
    Posts
    1,774

    Angry Don't let this forum go down!

    Quote Originally Posted by decix View Post
    I don't really follow your bashing in this forum because I've seen enough of it over the years. It's a general internet-forum problem and imho just a waste of time.
    It's a fact: when your community grows and you refuse to moderate and set up some basic rules (for example: bashing or this endless "getting off-topic" thing) the situation will escalate sooner or later like it has happened here.
    I've seen many forums go down because the community was getting more and more estranged, it's business of the administration and his moderators to stop that and obtain a comfortable climate. German LF-forum is no exception here :-(

    Just my 0.02 EUR...
    He is right. And the problem is: there are not many laser frea... addictives. So, if you would start a new forum, the list of members would be the same...

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Charleston, SC
    Posts
    2,147,489,123

    Arrow Now that it's public...

    I agree that posting rules are a good idea. Moderators would also help. Spec is against it, for the very reasons Bill mentioned, but I agree with others that as the forum grows, without moderation things will get out of hand.

    After the unpleasantness with the Format 3 debate (which interestingly enough has taken a recent turn for the better), I thought it better to keep this whole mess out of the forums - thus my PM to Gary. But since he has decided to take it public - so be it. (Of course, now that he's gone, it's all sort of pointless as far as he is concerned...)

    As you can see in my message to him, there was nothing harsh about it. (Quite the contrary to his reply to me, which contained considerable profanity and loathing.) Some of the quoted sections from other people's PM's *are* a bit harsh (and even those were somewhat sanitized), but I felt it served to illustrate that I was *not* singling him out based on some personal vendetta I had against him. Also, I was *not* asking him to leave, I was simply asking him to stop being such a jerk.

    While I hate to loose a member (especially one that is developing free software that could help the hobbyist community), I have to say that if they can't play nice with the rest of the group, then it's probably best for the group if they do leave.

    I must admit that personally, I have no sympathy for someone that can't be bothered to read what someone has written before they reply. Even if you disagree strongly with the other person, you need to at least understand what they are saying before you argue with them. Still, I never said anything in my post about wanting Gary to leave. (Though, admittedly, others had expressed that sentiment in their PM's.)

    I've tried to win him over, but he isn't listening. (By his own admission he doesn't feel obligated to read other people's posts.) I've discussed this in the forums with him before, and gotten the exact same type of reply in public that he sent me in private this morning.

    Re: the now-ancient disagreement between Bill and I, that was largely resolved in a matter of a few posts back and fourth. I recognized that I had said a few things in anger, I apologized to Bill (both publicly, in the forums, and privately, via the phone and PM's), and life went on. Since then there hasn't been any harsh words between us. I'm certainly not perfect, but I am receptive to other people's criticism.

    On the other hand, in my opinion Carmangary is one of a select few members (or should I say ex-members, now that he's gone), that has consistently returned to the same disruptive behavior time and time again.

    Adam

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Sheepsville, Wales, UK
    Posts
    3,396

    Default

    I guess as I am part of Garygate I should make my comments known, being sure to read the previous posts in this thread before putting my boot in my gob.
    The fact that Adam chose not to name names and point fingers and to keep the conversation toned down and private speaks volumes for his integrity and is the reason I, like many have a great deal of respect for him. Gary chose to make the PM public, I'm not sure what purpose he thought it would serve but it has shown us very clearly a true reflection of his personality.
    For the record I would like to say that I value the posts of all members, even if I don't agree with the posts sometimes they can point out that I'm a nurk. If I do take time to post into a thread you can be sure I've read the posts, and anyone, anyone at all who does not read the posts before commneting is first and formost betraying themselves. Surely you are only wasting your own time with this futile excercise.
    Gary if you or indeed anyone else will join in and make intelligent, informed and considered posts you will always be welcome as far as Im concerned. If you choose not to participate fully I wont miss you.

    Rob
    If you need to ask the question 'whats so good about a laser' - you won't understand the answer.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Laserists do it by the nanometre.

    Stanwax Laser is a Corporate Member of Ilda

    Stanwax Laser main distributor of First Contact in UK - like us on Facebook http://www.facebook.com/FirstContactPolymerCleaner
    www.photoniccleaning.co.uk

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Connecticut, USA
    Posts
    2,478

    Default

    i honestly dont know really anything about the "hatred" (sorry if thats too strong of a word) that is going on here. but it seems to have escalated out of control.

    i always knew that carmangary 95% of the time had a sarcastic and sometimes even "lashing out" type of answer or comment for people. HOWEVER, (and again, i DO NOT know the specifics of what happened and i AM NOT taking ANYONES side...) i respected the way gary spoke his mind.

    everyone on here isnt going to be as friendly and "little fluffy clouds" of personalities as we all would hope them to be. and OF COURSE, lashing out, flaming, or outright disrespect has NO PLACE in this forum. but has it really gotten to that? i dont know what really transpired and if i am missing something, than i sincerely apologize.

    i just really wouldnt like to see gary leave. i think and i believe that he is/was a positive influence on this community. if his wording or actions or responses were taken as offense or personal attacks, i could UNDERSTAND it, but i honestly dont think it was meant in that manner.

    i dont know the guy from a hole in the wall. never talked to him, probably never will. but i (95% of the time) respected what he had to say. he is a sarcastic son of a bitch and usually was a "debbie downer" (usually negative. my girlfriend taught me that phrase. lol) but in the long run i think his point and his answers posed positive thoughts or responses. he may have gone about it the wrong way, but it still got the same results!?!? Yes? No?

    it seems as if maybe i missed some serious bad shit from PM convos??

    i just REALLY would hate to see ANYONE leave here over some misinterpreted, misunderstood or conflicts of personalities. especially someone who has been more of a positive than a negative on this community.

    LIKE I SAID EARLIER, I AM IN NO WAY TAKING ANYONES SIDE OR SAYING WHO IS RIGHT OR WHO IS WRONG!!!

    im just wondering if this is being over analyzed and/or being blown out of proportion??? on ALL PARTIES behalves??

    HOW BOUT WE ALL GET TOGETHER, SHOOT SOME FUCKIN LASER BEAMS AROUND, GET SOME STRIPPERS, DRINK SOME BEERS AND HAVE SOME DAMN GOOD MAN FUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    -Marc
    http://www.laserist.org/images/ildalogos/ILDA-logo_colored-beams_Corporate_150w.jpg

    ILDA- U.S. Laser Regulatory Committee

    Authorized Dealer for:

    • Pangolin Laser Software and Hardware
    • KVANT Laser Modules & Laser Systems
    • X-Laser USA
    • CNI Lasers
    • Cambridge Technology & Eye Magic Professional Scanning Systems

    FDA/CDRH Certified Professional LuminanceRGB Laser Light Show Systems


  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Delaware USA
    Posts
    791

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gottaluvlasers View Post

    HOW BOUT WE ALL GET TOGETHER, SHOOT SOME FUCKIN LASER BEAMS AROUND, GET SOME STRIPPERS, DRINK SOME BEERS AND HAVE SOME DAMN GOOD MAN FUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    -Marc
    Hear Hear.....

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Herts, UK
    Posts
    1,254

    Default

    Was Gary's post that started all this really all that bad

    Rob said that he had made a 3 channel device and was testing it, and I read Gary's post as saying that it would be nice if someone knocked out a run of 3ch boards and that he now understood what it was all about, probably following Robs informative post.

    Thats the way I read it anyway...

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Rotterdam, Netherlands
    Posts
    789

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by p1t8ull View Post
    Was Gary's post that started all this really all that bad

    Rob said that he had made a 3 channel device and was testing it, and I read Gary's post as saying that it would be nice if someone knocked out a run of 3ch boards and that he now understood what it was all about, probably following Robs informative post.

    Thats the way I read it anyway...
    I think this in not from ONE topic and ONE reaction.
    Things are "brewing" some time now.

    It's just to bad it has to go this way.

    i personally never had real problems with gary.
    Yeah his posts often needed to be read a 2nd time to understand the sarcasm. (sometimes his posts do seem offending)
    But on the other hand... He helped people incl me, and conversations via PM's and mail where respectfull and helpfull..

    He gets mutch less on my nerves than "the other 0_1 programming GUY"
    That guy "also" posted he was leaving... and than removed the post before people could see it (in 1 minute's time).

    Gary will be back.... this is really the only "happy family" english lasershow forum on the net.

    Come on gary and Buff.... groupHugg!!!!!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •