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Thread: Projector ILDA wiring PLEASE HELP! :)

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Milwaukee Wisconsin
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    Question Projector ILDA wiring PLEASE HELP! :)

    Hello everyone,

    I am in need of some assistance… I am currently finishing the build of my first laser projector, and im having some ILDA wiring issues.
    I’d like to thank everyone in advance for his or her help & input!!! I have wanted to build a projector for the past 15 years, but I have only started this build last month… So im still pretty green to the specifics… because of this, I humbly ask that everyone excuse my ignorance, and answer with as much detail as possible.
    My projector is pretty basic, specs are as follows:
    Laser: 1 watt YAG from AXIS
    Scanners: Eye Magic 30kpps from ONE STOP LASER SHOP
    Control: Rick Gebhardt’s Alphalite software/hardware… (not working
    properly yet, but that’s for another post!)
    Housing: home made from old speaker stand column

    ***see attached pictures***
    The current wiring scheme is as follows:
    Scanner control signal:
    • X+ = pin 1
    • Y+ = pin 2
    • X- = pin 14
    • Y- = pin 15
    Laser Modulation Signal:
    • Mod + = pin 3
    • Mod- = pin 16
    110VAC Mains:
    • Power enters projector via IEC connection…
    • L N & G connects directly to Laser and scanner power supply’s. (post fuse and switch.)


    Here are my questions:
    1. On the projector’s ILDA input, should pin 25 be connected to the
    110VAC Mains ground along with the laser and scanner power
    supplies?
    2. Does pin 25 need to be connected to anything else?
    3. Are my other ILDA pin connections correct?
    4. Are there any other modifications that should be made to my existing
    connections?
    5. If you were building this projector, what would you change or do
    differently?
    Thanks again for any and all input!!! - Pete Spence pspence@pmesalesgroup.com
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails BFL1000-1.jpg  

    BFL1000-3.jpg  

    BFL1000-4.jpg  

    BFL1000-5.jpg  

    BFL1000-7.jpg  

    BFL1000-2.jpg  

    BFL1000-6.jpg  


  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    chesterfield uk
    Posts
    466

    Default re

    iv found a pin out diagram on the ftp server and added it to here for you. it shows that pin 25 is your ground, i think this one is from laser freak.com so thanks to whoever wrote it. very good.
    iv got another document i downloaded from an unknown source (iv forgotten)
    which is very good. it was something from the ilda website i think but its a pdf file and over 5mb which is the maximum i can upload to this site. i will load it to the ftp server but will also send it to you if you want.
    let me know mate ollie

    cheers
    Attached Files Attached Files
    2 x 10w full colour laser systems
    2 x 4w full colour laser systems
    2 x 3w full colour laser systems
    1 450mw pinkem rgb 30k scanner
    2 x 1 watt green laser
    4 x 1 watt blue 445nm laser systems
    3 watt rgb .

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Canton, GA USA
    Posts
    384

    Default

    Hi pspence,

    Welcome !

    And a DAMN nice looking projector!!

    However, the pictures you've posted show a 1W DPSS 532nm laser - not a YAG.

    Read this: (all will become clear)

    http://www.pangolin.com/resguide12.htm
    Last edited by trwalters001; 03-29-2009 at 13:19.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Milwaukee Wisconsin
    Posts
    16

    Default

    Hey Guy’s,
    Thanks for the fast response!!! Trwalters, thanks for the kind words regarding my build!!! It’s been turning out better than I had expected! As I mentioned, I had been wanting to attempt this project for some time… on day I was rummaging through my collection of “stuff” in my basement, and I came across the old speaker stand (now the case) and thought, “oh yes – that would work!” ☺
    As for the laser, it is indeed a DPSS… that im sure of… I was talking to Rick Gebhardt about the build recently and I told him that I was using a 1Watt 532nm DPSS laser… he replied and said “a 1watt YAG, COOL!!!)
    So from that point on, I figured that “YAG” was the correct acronym for a 532nm solid-state laser… I guess I stand corrected. ☺ If you don’t mind, could you please fill me in on what the difference is?

    I have seen the document you recommended… but I wasn’t sure if they were saying to tie the AC ground to pin 25, and I just wanted to make sure…
    So, just to be clear, all of my other pin connections are correct, right?
    • Pin 1 = homerun to X+
    • Pin 2 = homerun to Y+
    • Pin 3 = homerun to Mod +
    • Pin 14 = homerun to X-
    • Pin 15 = homerun to Y-
    • Pin 16 = homerun to Mod -
    • Pin 25, ties into AC ground for the laser and scanner power supplies.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Charleston, SC
    Posts
    2,147,489,446

    Smile Hi there!

    Hi pspence! Welcome to PhotonLexicon.

    Nice projector you're building there. Before I get to your questions, I have one for you. Are you planning to use that projector in a public show, or is this just a hobby for you? Reason I ask is that there are a number of extra safety requirements that need to be met for you to use that projector in a commercial show (not the least of which is filing for a variance from the CDRH).

    Given that you're using a 1 watt laser, you have the potential to cause serious, permanent eye injury with it, so I wanted to know ahead of time if you plan to use it in public or not. (If you do want to perform commercial shows, we can help you work towards getting a variance.)

    Also, I assume you've got some laser goggles that are at least OD 4 at both 532 nm and 1064 nm, right? (If not, you really need to buy a pair.)

    OK - on to your questions:
    Quote Originally Posted by pspence View Post
    Here are my questions:
    1. On the projector’s ILDA input, should pin 25 be connected to the
    110VAC Mains ground along with the laser and scanner power
    supplies?
    YES.
    2. Does pin 25 need to be connected to anything else?
    No. All grounds in your case come together at a single point and then connect to pin 25 and the earth ground on the AC input (mains) connector.
    3. Are my other ILDA pin connections correct?
    YES.
    4. Are there any other modifications that should be made to my existing connections?
    They look fine to me.
    5. If you were building this projector, what would you change or do differently?
    I'd add a shutter (pin 13 on the ilda connector - it goes high when the shutter should open. Drive it with a small transistor), and a remote kill switch. I'd also make sure that the ILDA interlock loop has been implemented correctly. (That is, if you yank the ILDA cable out of the socket, everything in the projector dies.) This is done by passing a very low current through pins 4 and 17 on the ILDA cable. (The controller will have these pins connected internally.) Thus, with the cable conencted, the circuit is complete and your interlock is satisfied. But pull the cord, and it kills the box. Be sure to only use low voltage, low current signalling though. (Again, use a transistor to drive a latching relay...)

    Finally, I'd start saving up for a different controller if I were you. I, too, once had an alphalite (still do actually - but it's on the shelf these days), and I can tell you that it will drive you mad. Nothing wrong with playing around with it first just to get the hang of things, but very soon you're going to want a different controller that lets you do more. (Much more)

    Really though, for a first time projector, your design, layout, and workmanship is top notch. (Much better than my first design!) So you should be proud of your effort.
    I was talking to Rick Gebhardt about the build recently and I told him that I was using a 1Watt 532nm DPSS laser… he replied and said “a 1watt YAG, COOL!!!)
    So from that point on, I figured that “YAG” was the correct acronym for a 532nm solid-state laser… I guess I stand corrected. ☺ If you don’t mind, could you please fill me in on what the difference is?
    Many laserist's use the terms "YAG" and "DPSS" interchangably, but this is not techically correct. A yag laser is *usually* pumped with a flashlamp. The Yag (Yittrium-Aluminum-Garnet, basically a glass rod that has been doped with rare-earth elements) lases at 1064 nm, which is sent to a KTP crystal where it is doubled to 532 nm to make green.

    A DPSS laser is pumped with an IR diode (808 nm, to be exact). The lasing medium is usually Vanadate (similar to YAG). Once again, the Vanadate lases at 1064 nm (or 946 nm if we're talking about a DPSS blue laser), and then this IR beam is frequency-doubled using a KTP crystal to make 532nm (or, in the case of a DPSS blue, the crystal is LiBO, or BiBO, or a couple other varieties, and the output wavelength is 473 nm.)

    So they're close, but they're really not the same thing. Despite this, many people call DPSS lasers "YAGs", especially when talking about higher-power DPSS lasers. I wouldn't sweat it myself...

    Check out Sam's Laser FAQ for tons more information about all this. (If you're curious about the physics, that is...)

    Adam
    Last edited by buffo; 03-30-2009 at 09:12.

  6. #6
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    Yellowknife, NT, Canada
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    Default

    Don't know much about ILDA since I haven't got my scanner running on that yet !

    But that case is a helluva nice ! I REALLY LIKE IT . Looks pretty sturdy !

    -Adam

  7. #7
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    Connecticut, USA
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    Default

    this is a VERY informative thread! sticky...sticky....

    -Marc
    http://www.laserist.org/images/ildalogos/ILDA-logo_colored-beams_Corporate_150w.jpg

    ILDA- U.S. Laser Regulatory Committee

    Authorized Dealer for:

    • Pangolin Laser Software and Hardware
    • KVANT Laser Modules & Laser Systems
    • X-Laser USA
    • CNI Lasers
    • Cambridge Technology & Eye Magic Professional Scanning Systems

    FDA/CDRH Certified Professional LuminanceRGB Laser Light Show Systems


  8. #8
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    Mar 2009
    Location
    Milwaukee Wisconsin
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    WOW!!! THANKS FOR ALL THE INFO!!!!!! YOU GUYS ROCK!!!

    I’ve been away from my office for a few days, so I didn’t see this until last night… finished my wiring, hooked up the FULL AUTO loaner rig that One Stop Laser Shop let me borrow, and everything worked perfectly!!! To freak’n cool!!!

    Adam, a.k.a. BUFFO – Thank you, thank you, thanks you for all the great info!!! and for the kudos on the build! I really appreciate it!!!
    As for your questions:
    “Are you planning to use that projector in a public show, or is this just a hobby for you?”

    While initially II was just intending to use it for privet use, it is looking like it will be used for public use quite a bit… I own a Rep Firm that specializes in recording software and hardware, and lighting equip… www.pmesalesgroup.com
    Because of this, I am in constant contact with most of the professional resident LD’s in metro Milwaukee, and Chicago… when i've been talking about the build many of them have asked me to bring the system out to their clubs for special events…

    Any and all info on what I’ll need to do to get my system certified would be awesome!

    “Also, I assume you've got some laser goggles that are at least OD 4 at both 532 nm and 1064 nm, right? (If not, you really need to buy a pair.)”

    I have been using an old welding helmet… is this sufficient?

    “'d add a shutter (pin 13 on the ILDA connector - it goes high when the shutter should open. Drive it with a small transistor), and a remote kill switch.”

    I have a small actuator that I ordered from OSLS… (See picture bellow) But i'm not sure what else I need to build to implement it… I knew I’d need one, so I drilled and tapped the mounting holes, but I have yet to hook it up… you mentioned driving it with “small transistor…” could you give me the specifics?


    “I'd also make sure that the ILDA interlock loop has been implemented correctly. (That is, if you yank the ILDA cable out of the socket, everything in the projector dies.) This is done by passing a very low current through pins 4 and 17 on the ILDA cable. (The controller will have these pins connected internally.) Thus, with the cable connected, the circuit is complete and your interlock is satisfied. But pull the cord, and it kills the box. Be sure to only use low voltage, low current signaling though. (Again, use a transistor to drive a latching relay...)”

    My laser power supply does have a “interlock” connection on it via an RJ45 jack… currently I have just looped the + & - back into in to override it… If I am understanding you correctly I just need hook that into pins 4 and 17, and that take care if the interlock issue?


    “Finally, I'd start saving up for a different controller if I were you. I, too, once had an alphalite (still do actually - but it's on the shelf these days), and I can tell you that it will drive you mad. Nothing wrong with playing around with it first just to get the hang of things, but very soon you're going to want a different controller that lets you do more.”

    Yeah, im figuring that out pretty quickly… I can’t get alpha to work at all… I finally got the SW to run without freezing, but the interface still doesn’t work when I view the cards output on my scope it just looks like noise i.e. square waves smashed to 1dBfs… ☹ not pretty…

    As I mentioned at the top of this post, Fred at OSLS sent me a Full Auto rig for testing purposes, which seems like a pretty cool, somewhat limited, extremely overpriced app…

    What are your thoughts on pangolin flashback system? Or could you make any other recommendations?

    Someone needs to create a file format converter to convert .ild to multichannel aiff… then someone could buy any $100.00 sample playback software and trigger the samples (images) with a midi keyboard or pad bank… I feel that the price of most of the laser control software currently available is just insane! ☹

    Thanks again for your input!!! I really do appreciate it!!!

    -Pete

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Milwaukee Wisconsin
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    Almost forgot to include the picture of the shutter i'll be using...

    ***ALSO*** for those who have expressed interest in my projector housing...

    I have two more similer extrusions availible for sale... they are slightly smaller, ruff dimentions are as follows: 33" x 5" x 5" + or - 1/16".

    My firm also represents Odyssey Case & BC Custom case... because of this, we have a large number of sample ATA flight cases for sale curently. The case with my projector was modified in our shop for this application. aprx cost with new foam after mod, $80.00...

    Please feel free to call or email or post if interested
    Pete Spence
    866-673-1445
    pspence@pmesalesgroup.com
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails ACTU 1.jpg  

    Actu 2.jpg  

    Actu 3.jpg  

    BFL1k remote box thing.jpg  


  10. #10
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    Milwaukee Wisconsin
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    Default

    Case picts
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails housing 2.jpg  

    housing 3.jpg  

    BFL1k in FC1.jpg  

    BFL1k in FC2.jpg  

    BFL1k in FC3.jpg  


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