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Thread: ILDA Accreditation

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by heroic View Post
    If you want to become licensed to handle freon, you have to take a training course and pass an exam. These days, most people do it online. It costs about $25 all in and it makes sure nobody's going to pollute the atmosphere with waste freon and nobody's going to blow themselves up with leaked propane or butane (which is used as a refrigerant these days).
    Exactly so why can't anyone do this for lasers?

    The courses I've seen in the UK tend to cost around £500 - about $800. That's a lot of money for anyone who's a non professional and require classroom attendance - not always convenient and can mean other expenses such as travel, meals and accommodation.

    I agree entirely with Pitts (Ray's) sentiment above, I hope you posted that on the ILDA forums as its even better than Edwin Dolby's post in my opinion.

    As you say, number of professional shows means nothing other than you've been getting paid for them. There are people out there in the hobbyist world who've never done a show in their life but who are safer than some of the companies operating every night of the week.

  2. #12
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    Thats OK, I can come up with the PL on line safety test. And make it tough enough to be respectable.

    But there are multiple levels to the ILDA cert, for example the basic show op one is not that bad.
    I dont know that many people who could pass the professional, period, maybe less then 10.


    Steve

  3. #13
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    Note: Be aware that this new thing is not to be an ILDA member but to be certified as a profressional ILDA laser show dude or something like that. In fact, you don't even have to be an ILDA member to get it, but it costs more. So, don't get being an ILDA member and this new certification thing confused.

    However, I think that the whole certification idea is so bad that it embarasses me to be associated with ILDA and that is why I am turned off and won't renew. That isn't the only reason I have considered not renewing but that is the last nail in the coffin. I'm only an individual member so it is no big loss to them.

  4. #14
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    IF they want to certify you, it should be a very nominal fee like (dare i say it) taking a gun safety coarse, or ATV training (which is free).

    If safety is the goal, then why charge for it?

    obviously safety is not the issue, rather here is a way for The ILDAto exploit fear and make money...

    This should be a free coarse that you can take to get your card (like cpr classes)
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  5. #15
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    However, I think that the whole certification idea is so bad that it embarasses me to be associated with ILDA and that is why I am turned off and won't renew. That isn't the only reason I have considered not renewing but that is the last nail in the coffin. I'm only an individual member so it is no big loss to them.[/QUOTE]

    I'll Call YOur Bluff:

    Did you participate in ILDA activities or did you just set there and read the laserist 6 times a year? Did you send a proxy vote in when the board voted on issues? Did you even work on a varience, or ask another ILDA member if you could go out and work a show with them, even as a volunteer? Did you try to do a Sphegetti writeup in the laserist or on the web page? NOOOO? I rest my case.

    You guys are kvetching over a draft proposal that even Bill Benner would have a hard time passing. Its a freakin test file to see how many people can score what, and then it will be adjusted downwords.

    Because I only go out and do one or two big shows a year )but big shows, 3000 or more audience usually) I'd have a hard time passing that, although I do have a award to make it much easier.

    Most people here would be going for the yet to be published Show Operator anyways!

    Hum, lets do a survey, number of PL members in the States or elsewhere that have the government paperwork to do shows in public????? I bet that's a tiny number. Number of you that have actually teched on a pro show????? Tiny number!

    How many of you earn more then 10% of your income working with lasers?

    Number of you that have professional certification in your career field? Tiny number!

    So don't gripe about a professional certification you can't earn.

    Start thinking about talking to ILDA about a Safety Certified Laser Hobbyist. I;ll call Tim Walsh and ask.

    Its gonna cost, if its anything like the Laserfreak.de semisponsered stuff, about 100-200$ to get, most of which would be travel to some professional near you to take a test and you'll have to attend a written test. So that the rest of us know you took the test and not a friend setting there helping you.

    If we do it right, and its respectable, it could help you with CDRH etc.

    Oh, and there will be a study guide and some math to do. Go take a look at the ham radio licensing system for a model, tests administered by volunteers, 70% is passing, multiiple choice test. 6 or 7 varients of the test questions, randomly issued and changed each year. I took A semester long course in Test and measurement for educators, and I and others will construct a statistically valid test that requires brainwork.

    Ie not show up at selem, set through 4 hours of safety lecture, and go home certified.

    DSLI Jon does more professional laser shows per square centimeter/seconds and I'd bet he'd have a hard time passing that draft. There are folks whom have spent 15 years as a laser artist in a back room designing shows and doing artwork, that have never went out in the field, and thus would never pass that draft.

    So relax and lets work with ILDA, and get a hobbyist specific test that would help you, not just be another PL bitch session.

    Dammit Show some freakin backbone people!

    Steve

  6. #16
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    OK, I had a talk with Pat Murphy, he's open to a written proposal to ILDA, and not just my proposals. Don't know if he likes the idea, cause he wants to see more details.
    I'll start writing it up. I'm open to suggestions, but the draft proposal is gonna mainly be laser safety, and your knowing when your legal, and how to get legal if you need to. I'll probably do a "types of lasers" compentency , and basic things like scan speed, points in a animation, first surface mirrors, dichros etc I'll throw in a little basic musicology for the laser harp folks. The safety for a flat scan, a reflected dot, and a static beam WILL be part of the test, or I'm out from the getgo. So will be the II and III meter rules etc.

    I'll call it the safety aware advanced laser hobbyist or something along those lines.

    CDRH has a free book called, Laser Shows, Who is Responsible, and a lot o it will come from that,
    '
    BTW Did you know that a pointer is a "demonstration Laser Product" just like a laser show?


    I takes two board meetings for ilda to approve something, and that can take up to a year. I'll need some backup people, and the problem with PL, which is also its beauty, is that you have 500 people that can never agree on anything.

    So I'll try to ram this through, But to quote and then hack some Billy Joel, and this rapidly becoming this old conservative obstinate ass's favorite line (just got called that in another group"

    "You can cry in your coffee , but dont come Bitchin to me" "

    If you dont help out, don't come back to me later and crying and say some requirement is grossly unfair...

    Steve Roberts
    Last edited by mixedgas; 01-08-2009 at 08:25.

  7. #17
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    ok well lets be sure to include something about safety goggles/glasses also Flight paths and airplanes, also inviable radiation hazards.
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  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by mixedgas View Post
    However, I think that the whole certification idea is so bad that it embarasses me to be associated with ILDA and that is why I am turned off and won't renew. That isn't the only reason I have considered not renewing but that is the last nail in the coffin. I'm only an individual member so it is no big loss to them.

    I'll Call YOur Bluff:

    Did you participate in ILDA activities or did you just set there and read the laserist 6 times a year? Did you send a proxy vote in when the board voted on issues? Did you even work on a varience, or ask another ILDA member if you could go out and work a show with them, even as a volunteer? Did you try to do a Sphegetti writeup in the laserist or on the web page? NOOOO? I rest my case.
    What bluff are you calling and what is your case? That I won't renew? Did I ever claim all of those things that you said I didn't do? Actually, for the record, I did contact ILDA about errors in the ILDA file format and suggested corrections. I think it fell on deaf ears. Why would I work on a variance or go work shows? I am not interested in performing shows because I write software. And what shows are in my area? I did contact Tim Walsh about holding a mini meeting in the Austin area for the 4 laserists here. Does that not count? I also briefly told him about Spaghetti and he thought it might be something to put in the laserist if there was time/space. There has only been one Laserist magazine released since I have been a member. I monitored the email list for awhile and sometimes contributed until it turned into a bickering match about money, etc.

    I rest my case that you don't know what you are talking about.

    But regardless, what does any of that have to do with whether or not I think what was proposed is a bad idea? Nothing.

    Your bluff has been called.
    Last edited by carmangary; 01-08-2009 at 09:12.

  9. #19
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    Ok.. both of you back the F up...

    This issue has obviously hit a nerve with the community and is a bone of contention.

    There is no reason for anyone anyone to take anything personally.. and we should also be careful when using specific people and situations as examples because there are people on the other ends of those examples..

    lets focus on the ACTUAL issue and not be side tracked by bickering... this is why it take you people years to get shit done..

    you dont have to like each other.. you don't have to agree.. you just have to be friken profesional about it, state your case as best you can, and put it to a vote..

    bickering is a useless waste of time and energy..
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  10. #20
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    Eh, I was just stating my case until mixed gas bag decided to make it personal against me (for what reason I have no idea - he seems to like to do that since this isn't the first time). I never let things slide, hence my response.

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