ILDA Accreditation

[Internatlaser]

ILDA
International Laser Display Association.

Maybe it should just be renamed ALDA

The tone here seems to be the US really needs accreditation, or countries that like to emulate America really need it.
OK if American laserists want have even more red tape to stumble through or a business culture based on fear of the future so be it,
If International Laser companies wish to participate in the American market they can subscribe to ALDA initiatives.
Sorry, for those of you that think that laser shows are only performed in America, this is not the case.
Its a big wide world out here, where lasers illuminate national monuments, celebrate events, are used in leisure facilities that scan audiences every night/day of the week without incidence.
When something ( So far unsubstantiated) Where are all those blind Russians?) is reported by the media, who can we trust with the knee jerk reaction
ALDA
Yes the American Laser Display Association masquerading as the International Laser Display Association fearing what might be.
The people at ILDA or is that ALDA are probably really worried on your behalf, maybe they could lobby congress for a bailout if things get really bad.

[Internatlaser]

" And the people driving it are the larger laser show production companies. Guys like LaserNet, LaserWave, and so on. Why do they want it? Simple. They want some recognition - some return on their investment in ILDA over the years."


Hits the nail squarely on the head.

[buffo]

Wow, Both Keeperex and Internatlaser agreeing with me in the same thread.... I must be on a roll here!

Adam

[keeperx]

OMG its a single line post !!!!!

[mixedgas]

And people who work in other uses of lasers such as car plants and science labs are appalled at what laser show guys call safety training.
Safety certification needs to be different from the professional certification.

If the govmint won't get off its arse, the industry should.

Steve

[gottaluvlasers]

the more i am reading this proposal the more i am realizing that this is a VERY bad and exclusionary proposal.

1. ACCREDITATION- I would have NO problem becoming "accredited" if there werent so many elitist criteria and "my laser is bigger than your laser" comparisons going on here.

A. an ILDA award must be won. WHY?? that is the most ABSURD criteria I think that could have been proposed! Not to toot my own horn and ya know what...ill use DSL_jon (a member here) as an example (sorry bro. ) as far as i know, and my apologies if i am wrong, but Day Star Lasers has never won an ILDA award. And with that, they would be UNABLE to become ILDA accredited! You kidding me? But yet, they have an A+ safety record, john knows probably more than ANYONE i have ever talked to regarding technical situations and he has produced some of the best shows i personally have ever seen! BUT- in the eyes of this new proposal, that is all not good enough.

B. Been in industry trade associations for at least 4 years? HUH??
Guys- we are doing laser light shows. we are providing ENTERTAINMENT. we arent building houses. we arent wiring hospitals. we arent feeding hungry poverty ridden children.

actually, lets make this easy-

*Direct from ILDA website-*

Minimum requirements at this time are as follows. A company must:

1. Have done at least 15 shows. Also, the shows must have a minimum level of technical complexity.

Here it is- minimum level of technical complexity. Well, im out. i only have a "rudimentary" and "low tech" 3W solid state laser. my laser IS NOT AS TECHNICAL AND NOT AS BAD ASS as your 700 lb ion white light water cooled laser. my show set up and got aimed in only 3 hours. your show took 4 days to set up. i only have to plug my laser into the wall. you have to plug your laser into a small cities power control center. my laser is cooled by air. your laser needs freon and water and radiators and 2 little angels hovering over the hose being run 400' to a water spicket in the middle of a field. your laser(s) require 3 months to program before show time. mine is the night before (sometimes). Therefore, i am in NO WAY a technical professional. and *WHO* decides what "level of complexity" a show provided?

Have won at least one award (Honorable Mention or better) for their shows.

-SEE ABOVE

Have been doing shows for at least two years.

- i *somewhat* agree with this. it is important for a show producer to have *experience* under his/her belt to provide a "Professional level" experience. HOWEVER- who's to say, 2 years? maybe its 5 years? maybe it 3 months. Some people may learn quicker and take to this profession faster than others. I saw a pretty large scale laser show production by a VERY reputable company that thoroughly SUCKED!!!! it was HORIFIC! and this was an upwards of $20,000 Laser show. oh, and by the way- this company HAS won ILDA awards. in fact, i think more than one award! so, why 2 years?

Have five letters of reference from clients

-Im not even going to comment on this. this is a joke right?? LASERS!!! WE ARE DOING LASER LIGHT SHOWS!!!! We arent asking to adopt children here! I had to get THREE letters of reference for my hand gun license! LOL. i am supposed to get 5 (FIVE?) letters to shoot a beam of light around???

Have been in industry trade associations at least 4 years

-SEE ABOVE

Participate in the industry and community via volunteer service

-I like this. i agree with it. TO A POINT!!! it needs to be clear as to what extent!

Have a certain number of education points (e.g., high school, college, etc.)

-ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!! I have a college degree. does that make me better than "Joe Smith" of XYZ company who has NO degree? ABSOLUTELY NOT! And what if "Joe Smith" has a degree in say, sex ed? (LOL.) does that mean he/she gets more "points" than someone else gets who has NO college education? We are walking a VERY THIN LINE putting people on pedestals.

Participate and attend industry conferences

-AGREED. But again, we should, as "Professioanls" WANT to do this! it shoudnt be a REQUIREMENT for a "title!"

Have at least one employee who passed a Laser Safety Officer course

-OF COURSE!!! 100% AGREE!!

Have additional laser safety activities

-Like what? who decides what "additional laser safety activities" are criteria for "accreditation?"

Affirm their committment to basic laser show safety principles

-AGREED!

I think we need to keep our eye on the ball here!

steve-
you bring up MANY MANY great points about laser safety and the state of the ease of posession of VERY high powered laser systems. HOWEVER- this is NOT what the ILDA "accreditation" program is focusing on! you are bringing up an issue and a problem that has VERY LITTLE TO DO with this program! i agree with 99.9 % of your arguments, but by me getting accredited by ILDA is NOT going to stop that jack ass on you tube buying a 40W old vag burner and lighting a cigarette on it with his baby in a high chair in the kitchen!

if proper safety and education and awareness is the bottom line goal of all of this than i propse a VERY simple solution-

instead of this accreditation program, where it is lasersits who ALREADY know the hazards of lasers, who already know NOT to point a 40W pulsed yag into an audience, who already know that a 500mW laser beam to the face at 10 feet away is dangerous- why dont we educate the people that DONT know these dangers?

how about all ILDA members pool some money and make a TV commerical? i would GLADLY pay some money for a professionally produced TV commercial to be aired. NOW i can see where MY money has gone to do something GOOD! now *I* could see how my ILDA membership has paid off. this commercial should obviously warn of the dangers with lasers. ESPECIALLY pointers! at the end of the commercial, "this message brought to you by the members of the INTERNATIONAL LASER DISPLAY ASSOCIATION!! Please visit www.laserist.org to see a list of our professional laserists!"

i think THAT would have A LOT more impact than some multi-million dollar laser company adding a pretty little plaque to their fireplace that says, "Accredited!"

-Marc
-CT Lasers

[soforene]

...how about all ILDA members pool some money and make a TV commerical? i would GLADLY pay some money for a professionally produced TV commercial to be aired.

In every country in the World?
After all, it is the International Laser Display Association.

That might be quite a few pennies.

[mixedgas]

In every country in the World?

That might be quite a few pennies.

We'll take it out of your avatar budget, wont even be a dent.

But a TV commercial is a damn fine Idea.

TV is kinda outdated, how much does it cost to get a google plug ad?

Steve

[Laserman532]

"jack ass on you tube buying a 40W old vag burner and lighting a cigarette on it with his baby in a high chair in the kitchen!" LOL I have created a standard term

ILDA should:

A- Enforce the Code of Ethics & Professionalism
B- Produce and adopt standards of interface & control parameters
C- Present awards of achievement as decided by peers
D- Produce annual meetings as currently doing very well
E- Offer training on safety - NOT certification on safety
F- Offer training on CDRH Compliance - NOT certification on compliance

ILDA should not:

A- Attempt to enforce safety requirements set forth by the NCDRH
B- Attempt to educate the public - flies live longer than most peoples memory
C- Adopt policies that are exclusive in nature to stroke the elites ego
D- Require a "certified" projector or control system - socialistic & exclusionary
E- Attempt to report or police the rogue laserist, it is futile

Bottom line ILDA is complicating the original spirit of its formation with the accreditation program. Stick with the basics, it will keep the organization fun and foster technical development and advancement of the professional industry. If the egos of the old guard need more recognition, produce a new award for "Worlds Greatest Laser Dudes" or something like that. That still becomes a popularity contest, may be combign a beauty contest or fashion award as well.

I have no dog in this fight, but just the banter bouncing back and forth and the controversy associated with a small colletction of players trying to form a "special club" within an good, working association proves it is a bad idea.

[soforene]

... Stick with the basics, it will keep the organization fun ...

You know, that's one word I have never associated with ILDA but surely that's the driving force behind every single one of us in this game.