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Thread: ILDA Accreditation

  1. #131
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    Carmongary, go over to Google , type in Laser Show, and see what you get in terms of everything from DJ's with 15 mW automated boxes, to real show companies. There is is a lot of noise out there, getting the wheat from the chaff is difficult.

    That is why many folks, large and small, would like to see a professional class created.

    Is a DJ who uses a 250 mW 300 mW laser with 15 preset animations, stepper motors, no blanking, and no show customization what you would like to see hired? Your own software blows that out of the water. Yet most people want to get in the biz for the minimum investment in time, and start up dollars, yet maximize revenue by undercutting the prices of those who can do it well, and they will show up with stepper motors and no variance.

    Imagine that if it were true in the auto industry. The 3000$ car has to be a death trap by definition.

    Thats the issue, what is a good laser show, and how to make sure those who want one, get one. And one with artistic value.

    Note the points for charity shows on the spreadsheet and volunteering.

    It has to be a balence.

    Steve

  2. #132
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    Buffo - I have not decided yet if I will go for the accreditation. I don't think it will affect my business at all; I doubt that ILDA affects my business at all, other than the contacts that I have made, equipment and techniques that I have learned about, and referrals that I have gotten from the contacts made through ILDA. Generally, I do not tell my clients about my competitors!

    I don't think that the program is about money, either, it is about prestige, and perception.

    I look at ILDA this way: imagine that at the end of one's life, you have been a professional laserist all your life, wouldn't you rather have been a member of an association like ILDA, and met other professionals like yourself planet-wide?

    And how do you get those very neat quotes to appear in your posts? When I try to use the quote button it picks up the entire post. Where can I learn the details of this?

    - Tim

  3. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaserWizard View Post

    And how do you get those very neat quotes to appear in your posts? When I try to use the quote button it picks up the entire post. Where can I learn the details of this?

    - Tim

    Tim,

    You can copy and paste the quote code.

    {quote} your qoute text here {/quote} replace { } with [ ]

  4. #134
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    I actually sometimes do shows just for FUN, not to get money out of it. I take all my gear, and break my legs for 6 hours or so setting up, running, and pulling down our school disco, and don't get paid a cent for it. I am fine with that however, since I enjoy it.

    The only thing I am worried about with this accreditation stuff is that the "smaller people" need to get business to grow. I cant imagine all of the huge companies all started with their huge 40W argon ion systems, or even just the 1 man companies all started with a professional system right from the day they thought "Hey lasers are cool, I think i'm going to start a laser display business"

    Theres a few people out there that want to grow and establish their systems, but if theres this "badge" that is saying "Pick me!" on all the big companies, they are soon going to run out of money to support the business, and eventually drop out of lasers all together. I know this isnt true for all cases, but I just feel that all the big, already established companies will get ALL the business, and all the smaller ones will die out. Think of it like the supermarkets, how many more of those are there compared to the little one-person run corner stores now ?

    I know some people are gonna disagree with me, its just my small input

  5. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaserWizard View Post
    I don't think that the program is about money, either, it is about prestige, and perception.
    It's all about the money my friend. Especially in today's economy where companies are pinching pennies. I can't imagine anyone going for this thing unless it is going to potentially increase sales or allow them to charge more for their shows.

    It's kind of like guys dressing up when they go to the night clubs. Do they dress up just to look good or do they dress up so that they can get with the ladies, or at least improve their chances.

    I'm not saying dressing up for the ladies is bad, though. But, more than likely, the ones that dress up and don't care about the ladies are caring about the guys... not sure how that applies to my analogy, though. I'm rambling now.

  6. #136
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    One word, NETWORKING! AKA Social Engineering.

    Its not just about money, if you do a laser career for 20 years of your life, its pretty nasty if you don't have a professional degree hanging on the wall for doing it. I just interviewed for a career slot, and it came down to me and one other guy. The committee doing the hiring said that I had more experience and skills then my competitor , but the fact that he had taken the time to add some certifications and do continuing education made the decision for them. My previous employer would not pay for the continuing education thing and I said F&^% IT when I looked at the costs. Now it just cost me. If I had spent a few evenings and weekends attending the stupid certification thing, I would have had the job. Even though I could teach the stupid cert stuff in my sleep.

    BTW, that job came with tenure, ie it was a university slot that if you make it through the first 90 days, its nearly impossible to fire FOR LIFE you unless you commit a felony.

    OUCH!


    So you start out as a hobby to do lasers and you beat the odds and turn it into a growing company, you want something to hang on the wall. You can either try for a ILDA artistic award, which can be somewhat of a long shot, or you could have certification. People will go for a certification. I assure you, if your AVI, LFI, Laser Innovations, DayStar, LaserNet, etc, your gonna get business because you already know how to get business, even without ILDA certification.

    I only know one person with a degree in Laser Art, and that is because he went to a rather fancy , rather expensive, exclusive, college that allowed students in some cases to design their own degrees. That would NOT happen in today's market. I would not say his degree in laser art was a mistake, and I would not say it was a easy degree to earn, because he spread it out across a mix of art and science and engineering courses.

    So some ILDA members are pushing to have a piece of paper on the wall. I can see why.
    I'd have a hard time proving all the shows I have worked on, because I never kept a log, other then the ones on my own variance. When I was younger, I preferred to be paid in cash, so I have no records. Some of the guys I worked for are gone, dead, out of the business etc. I was too busy working to take pictures, and film was NOT cheap. Personal digital cameras really didn't exist yet.

    (IF the IRS is reading this, I now prefer to have it on the record so I get social security, OK? You know, older and wiser.... I pay my taxes)

    So if you, Carmongary, wanted to hire me, how do I prove to you I have done this stuff?
    Would a ILDA certification suffice?

    Besides, you get business by NETWORKING, almost nobody gets on the phone and calls around and says, I want a lasershow. The really big laser companies pay money to get listed in books, they go to things like conventions of Hotel and Convention Managers etc. They make sure when they do a gig at a hotel to give the hotel's event staff a business card and send them a thankyou note. (and probably something else too) My friend Karl just sent 400 full color fliers about his company to hotels and casinos. He might get 2 one night hits out of 400 expensive mailings.
    So a ILDA cert on the wall doesn't count much more then ILDA membership already does.

    And one last thing. I got invited to a ILDA conference by a ILDA member, thinking that my career as a hobbyist would be much easier if I got to know my parts suppliers. He was right. And much to my suprise, many times I have had big laser companies pick up the phone and call me, because they met me at ILDA and their staff was too stretched out or I was closer to a site, etc.

    Even the biggest monster most Walmart like Big Laser Company has called me once, and thrown me a Gig. Why, because I sat next to the CEO at LFX one year, and I was in the ILDA directory when he needed a local technician for a emergency repair for big client.

    ILDA membership has also helped me many times in a JAM. I've had ILDA members fedex me hard to get parts, TO A HOTEL ROOM, when I was 3000 miles away from my lab. Usually with "Don't worry about it, now, pay me later". I'd done the same for them. It still helps me even when I'm not a member.

    I had a issue with a regional FAA person, who said, "I'm not gonna give you a outdoor show permit in my region because I've never met you, and I don't know who you are. FAA PERMITS are not exactly Shall ISSUE, like a gun permit. I , in desperation, picked up the phone, called a laser safety officer at the "REALLY BIG MONSTER LASER CORPORATION", she vouched for me with the FAA lady, and my permit was faxed in a hour.
    How did I know Mrs LSO? I had breakfast with her at a ILDA conference.

    As a way of saying thanks, I bought a 300$ show tape from the RBMLC, later on, and I'll tell you what, "C is for Cookie" is one of my most requested pieces in the inventory, even if it does look like it was drawn by a three year old. By adults, even.


    And btw, just like PL, if your visiting a town and you know other ILDA members, you find you have a friend with a common interest to have a beer with.

    ITS ALL ABOUT NETWORKING.

    Not a one of you baats a EYELASH at taking Pangolin's PL Member discount or One Stop Laser Shop's PL Member discount, yet you say joining ILDA to network is unfair. ILDA has a individual membership for exactly this reason. ILDA does not require you to make X dollars in sales to be a member, Student membership is like 50$, and that gets you the mailing list, the Laserist, on line access, access to insurance, access to the Conference etc. Indivdual membership is not much more. ILDA usually gets a hotel discount for its members, so thats why people go to conferences. How many of you otherwise have a excuse to go to Amsterdam? ILDA somehow picks site's with GOOD BEER!

    Oh, the hypocracy! You all like networking, what's wrong with doing it as a ILDA member?

    Steve
    Last edited by mixedgas; 01-16-2009 at 10:33.

  7. #137
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    Networking, diplomas, etc. They are all to achieve the same goal.

  8. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by mixedgas View Post
    One word, NETWORKING! AKA Social Engineering.

    Its not just about money, if you do a laser career for 20 years of your life, its pretty nasty if you don't have a professional degree hanging on the wall for doing it. I just interviewed for a career slot, and it came down to me and one other guy. The committee doing the hiring said that I had more experience and skills then my competitor , but the fact that he had taken the time to add some certifications and do continuing education made the decision for them. My previous employer would not pay for the continuing education thing and I said F&^% IT when I looked at the costs. Now it just cost me. If I had spent a few evenings and weekends attending the stupid certification thing, I would have had the job. Even though I could teach the stupid cert stuff in my sleep.

    BTW, that job came with tenure, ie it was a university slot that if you make it through the first 90 days, its nearly impossible to fire FOR LIFE you unless you commit a felony.

    OUCH!


    So you start out as a hobby to do lasers and you beat the odds and turn it into a growing company, you want something to hang on the wall. You can either try for a ILDA artistic award, which can be somewhat of a long shot, or you could have certification. People will go for a certification. I assure you, if your AVI, LFI, Laser Innovations, DayStar, LaserNet, etc, your gonna get business because you already know how to get business, even without ILDA certification.

    I only know one person with a degree in Laser Art, and that is because he went to a rather fancy , rather expensive, exclusive, college that allowed students in some cases to design their own degrees. That would NOT happen in today's market. I would not say his degree in laser art was a mistake, and I would not say it was a easy degree to earn, because he spread it out across a mix of art and science and engineering courses.

    So some ILDA members are pushing to have a piece of paper on the wall. I can see why.
    I'd have a hard time proving all the shows I have worked on, because I never kept a log, other then the ones on my own variance. When I was younger, I preferred to be paid in cash, so I have no records. Some of the guys I worked for are gone, dead, out of the business etc. I was too busy working to take pictures, and film was NOT cheap. Personal digital cameras really didn't exist yet.

    (IF the IRS is reading this, I now prefer to have it on the record so I get social security, OK? You know, older and wiser.... I pay my taxes)

    So if you, Carmongary, wanted to hire me, how do I prove to you I have done this stuff?
    Would a ILDA certification suffice?

    Besides, you get business by NETWORKING, almost nobody gets on the phone and calls around and says, I want a lasershow. The really big laser companies pay money to get listed in books, they go to things like conventions of Hotel and Convention Managers etc. They make sure when they do a gig at a hotel to give the hotel's event staff a business card and send them a thankyou note. (and probably something else too) My friend Karl just sent 400 full color fliers about his company to hotels and casinos. He might get 2 one night hits out of 400 expensive mailings.
    So a ILDA cert on the wall doesn't count much more then ILDA membership already does.

    And one last thing. I got invited to a ILDA conference by a ILDA member, thinking that my career as a hobbyist would be much easier if I got to know my parts suppliers. He was right. And much to my suprise, many times I have had big laser companies pick up the phone and call me, because they met me at ILDA and their staff was too stretched out or I was closer to a site, etc.

    Even the biggest monster most Walmart like Big Laser Company has called me once, and thrown me a Gig. Why, because I sat next to the CEO at LFX one year, and I was in the ILDA directory when he needed a local technician for a emergency repair for big client.

    ILDA membership has also helped me many times in a JAM. I've had ILDA members fedex me hard to get parts, TO A HOTEL ROOM, when I was 3000 miles away from my lab. Usually with "Don't worry about it, now, pay me later". I'd done the same for them. It still helps me even when I'm not a member.

    I had a issue with a regional FAA person, who said, "I'm not gonna give you a outdoor show permit in my region because I've never met you, and I don't know who you are. FAA PERMITS are not exactly Shall ISSUE, like a gun permit. I , in desperation, picked up the phone, called a laser safety officer at the "REALLY BIG MONSTER LASER CORPORATION", she vouched for me with the FAA lady, and my permit was faxed in a hour.
    How did I know Mrs LSO? I had breakfast with her at a ILDA conference.

    As a way of saying thanks, I bought a 300$ show tape from the RBMLC, later on, and I'll tell you what, "C is for Cookie" is one of my most requested pieces in the inventory, even if it does look like it was drawn by a three year old. By adults, even.


    And btw, just like PL, if your visiting a town and you know other ILDA members, you find you have a friend with a common interest to have a beer with.

    ITS ALL ABOUT NETWORKING.

    Not a one of you baats a EYELASH at taking Pangolin's PL Member discount or One Stop Laser Shop's PL Member discount, yet you say joining ILDA to network is unfair. ILDA has a individual membership for exactly this reason. ILDA does not require you to make X dollars in sales to be a member, Student membership is like 50$, and that gets you the mailing list, the Laserist, on line access, access to insurance, access to the Conference etc. Indivdual membership is not much more. ILDA usually gets a hotel discount for its members, so thats why people go to conferences. How many of you otherwise have a excuse to go to Amsterdam? ILDA somehow picks site's with GOOD BEER!

    Oh, the hypocracy! You all like networking, what's wrong with doing it as a ILDA member?

    Steve
    As one of the amatuers on this forum, I must say -
    VERY well put, and I'm in agreement 100%!
    Actually, I feel quite proud to be an active member of this forum, AND to display the ILDA membership logo as part of my signature block!

    And I STILL like your idea, and would like to participate, in the safety classes you mentioned previously!

    Randy
    RR

    Metrologic HeNe 3.3mw Modulated laser, 2 Radio Shack motors, and a broken mirror.
    1979.
    Sweet.....

  9. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by mixedgas View Post
    Oh, the hypocracy! You all like networking, what's wrong with doing it as a ILDA member?

    Steve
    I'm almost pathologically bad at networking. That aside, your previous paragraph describes something very similar to the benefits of joining the Musician's Union in the UK. I joined that for a few years, then I left. I didn't even consider what was in it for me, I just decided on whether I felt like I had a place there or not. I left when I felt I did not.

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