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Thread: Pangolin overpriced?

  1. #1
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    Default Pangolin overpriced?

    In another thread, Tony wrote:

    Quote Originally Posted by tony220171 View Post
    Yes but out of all the laser products on the market yours is the most overpriced.
    Are you sure about that?

    I could swear that the posted prices of both Phoenix "Pro" and Phoenix Live are more expensive than LD2000 Intro and our FB3 -- in fact, substantially more expensive.

    It could be argued that "oh well, that's their Pro version compared to your Intro version" but the fact of the matter is that their Pro version doesn't include the wide number of options that our Intro version does (for example, Winamp, VST, several bitmap tracers, Asteroids, etc. etc. and so on). Moreover even with our Intro version, we include more shows and substantially more frames. And these aren't just any shows and frames, these are shows and frames made by some of the top companies in the world! ILDA Awards are won by people using even our LD2000 Intro system. See if you can find out how many ILDA Awards are won by "the other guys"...


    Quote Originally Posted by tony220171 View Post
    The other prices are all in the $900 range
    Comparing LD2000 to MAMBA, it could be that MAMBA is less expensive. But personally I wouldn't compare LD2000 to MAMBA. I would compare MAMBA to our FB3. In this case, if you are saying that MAMBA is around $900, well, our FB3 is between $500 and $600.

    The LD2000 system is made for true laser professionals and experienced laser users. It carries a price that is actually far lower than other software in that category. About the least expensive you can get by if you go with Laser Animation is $8300 (at today's exchange rate) and if you want to go up from there and buy a LOBO system, that's going to cost you around $100,000!

    So when comparing apples to apples, I really don't think that anybody else is offering the same value we are. I guess you wouldn't know about you don't have a Pangolin system. At a $500 to $600 price-point, you get an awful lot of sofware, plus our FB3 hardware. Really that's hard to beat. And just wait until you see QuickShow!

    Quote Originally Posted by tony220171 View Post
    so you owe it to your customers to offer free upgrades
    Owe it? We started the concept of free updates back in 1986, when Laser Media was charging $27000 for digitizing (and oh by the way, also charging for updates...) and Laser Fantasy and Laser Images were both charging over $12000 for their systems. I don't feel that we "owe it" to anyone. We just do it. That has been our guiding principle for the past 23 years.

    Quote Originally Posted by tony220171 View Post
    May be if you lowered your price and chargedfor upgrades you would make twice the amount of money.
    Lowered our price to what? We already give you more than anyone else does at the price points where our products are. Nobody can touch what we give you at these price points, or frankly any other price point.

    So what would you have us charge, and then how much would you be willing to pay for the updates Tony?


    Bill
    Last edited by Pangolin; 06-29-2009 at 23:27.

  2. #2
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    Default

    I personally believe that Pangolin software is very well priced. While for a complete hobbyist, the FB3 is a little more expensive than the DIY stuff, its a seriously amazing product.
    Before making my purchase, I spent a long time researching and comparing different products and for the money, I decided to go for the FB3 and am SO glad that I did.
    One day I hope to upgrade to an LD2000, but for now, my FB3 does everything that I could have imagined (and more)!

  3. #3
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    Default pangolin

    Hi everybody.

    We have used pangolin for many years now. From FB3 to the QM2K pro. Can only say you get value for your money. Can remember when we in the looked around on the software and hardware on the marked.
    And yes you pay alittle more for Panlgolin system on the QM's.. But you get a really nice system you can do what you like to do. When you are making a show. Bill & Co have done alot of thinking before they have got this far as them are now. About the FB's: I can only say the software is the best i have seen in this price range.
    Yes. There is other players in the laser marked, but you will be suprised when you have worked with med software packed pangolin delevers this the qm's.
    Last but not forgotten: The Livepro software is the best live software on the marked. And new thing still being added to the nice livepro.

    Yes, you can good and bad thinks about Bill and Pangolin. But remember they them made the choises of a good reasons on the way, to the great products they delever today. And don't forget service, as a really importend point. If there should be a qustions about the software, they responce the same day. +++++ Service.

    Also have a LDS pro system, but haven't used it for years. When you need a answer, there can go day's or a week, if you are lucky to get a mail back. That's not good enough. Go for pangolin WORKING. :-)

    Nice day in the heat :-)

    Bs Poul.

    www.laserpower.dk - www.lasershow.dk

  4. #4
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    Default

    I'm an LD2K user... I can comfortably say that for the money, there is nothing out there that would do better. I had made my decision on the LD2K (up from the FB3) once I started planning my projector. It was a nobrainer.

    Aside from all the benefits you get from Pangolin, the shows, the support, the friendly staff, the knowledge, and the fact that you have a community dedicated to and experienced with the product... what others do you know of that watch and respond to public Forums? Bill and his staff at Pangolin have gone over and beyond to help and improve the laser hobby as well as the professional field.

    One beautiful thing about Pangolin is that the device is extremely reliable. The software is perfect, powerful, and compliments the hardware incredibly! Now that I do have a Pangolin system, making the shift from hobbyist to professional is just that easy!

    You really can't go wrong... Ask anyone who's gotten "Pangoed" :P

    --DDL
    I suffer from the Dunning–Kruger effect... daily.

  5. #5
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    Cool

    I used to think Pangolin products were overpriced. But I had never played with a Pangolin system either, so I really didn't know what I was talking about. I figured that as long as it would put pretty pictures up on the wall, one controller was just as good as the next.

    Bill challenged me to take a good look at his products at the very first FLEM (back in January of 2007). And after watching the same show (the "Children" show, which is available for both the Pangolin LD-2000 and the Mamba Black / Easylase package) on Astroguy's system (Mamba Black + Easylase) and DZ's system (Pangolin LD-2000), it was clear that the Panoglin controller was far superior. (Astroguy was convinced as well. He bought an LD-2000 system that same week.)

    Then we started comparing software features. Pangolin comes with the Winamp plugin for real-time laser visualization. Pangolin comes with an abstract generator. Pangolin comes with Asteroids. Mamba has none of these features (and *still* doesn't). Oh, and Pangolin doesn't charge for updates either...

    So yeah, I looked back on all my previous statements that I'd made about Pangolin and realized that I was arguing from a position of ignorance. I also realized that I *really* wanted a Pangolin system.

    I believe *many* people make the same mistake I did. So before you dismiss Pangolin as being too expensive, you really should make the trip to a Laser Enthusiast's Meeting near you and see for yourself exactly what Pangolin can do for you. Then make your judgment about what you really get for your money.

    Adam

  6. #6
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    You pay for what you get.

    You buy a Renault and get Renault Quality and service.

    You buy a Bentley and you get Bentley quality and service.

    Other vehicles are available

    If you want the best then expect to pay more for it - quite simple AFAIAC.

    I would love a Pangolin system but at the moment I just can't afford it. I would also Like a Ferrari but again I can't afford it.
    I can however afford Mamba 1.9 and an Audi S6
    --------------------
    My Brain urt's!

    Continuously in Awe! of (H)Al, the Photonlexicon Font of Complete Knowledge - The (H)Al'PL Database of complete puss that no one needs to know or ever trusts as he ain't really got a Scooby doo about now't!

  7. #7
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    soforene is offline The Troll formerly known as Herbert Von Poople-Futtocks
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    Quote Originally Posted by smogthemog View Post
    ...I can however afford Mamba 1.9 and an Audi S6
    And a Turbo Go Kart !!

  8. #8
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    Lightbulb +1 for Pango

    QM2000 owner here; I first bought an Intro card and have recently upgraded it to Basic with plans on going all the way for Chirstmas. Compared to the money spent on the lasers themselves; I feel Pangolin is priced very fair. I would say it is similar to comparing scanners and scanner prices. Look at the features, reputation, support, and what the community says; then compare the prices.

    As Adam says the best way to experience the difference is to do a Pepsi challenge; same projector different controller. You will see the "light".

    O, I am not sure this has been mentioned... The shows... I have had the "Intro" package for almost two years and have just now gotten tired enough of the shows that come with all the QM2000 packages that I am finally making my own. And I use my projector far more than almost anyone else on this board. Usually 3 to 5 hours 3 to 4 nights a week; 1 to 2 hours every night would be a good average... Now I am really starting to use the tools I paid for two years ago.

    Pangolin overpriced?
    Love, peace, and grease,

    allthat... aka: aaron@pangolin

  9. #9
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    I think Pangolin is actually *value* priced, not overpriced.

    Keep in mind i said *value* instead of cost. There are several reasons for my opinion.

    1. Function. I have a FB3 ( will be updrading to ld2000 very soon) that has never had an unrecoverable glitch. Plug it in, fire up the software and it works. I don't have to fiddle with alot of things to make it functional each and every time.

    2. Service. I have always gotten great service from Pangolin. If there is a question, I can email the CEO directly *AND* he personally responds. I feel Bill really cares about the whole industry, including hobbyists. What other major player does that? Hell, Medialas doesn't really seem to care.

    3. Their products hold their value very well. I could sell my used FB3 for 90% of the original cost. Has anyone figured the value of a brand new Kia once it is driven off the lot? You lose about 30% in the 300 yards it takes to get out of the parking lot.

    4. Total Cost of Ownership. TCO is very low with Pango products over their lifetime compaired with other products.

    All-in-all, I can compair my business with Pango; My business *IS NOT* the cheapest in town nor do I want to be. Value and service more than make up for it in the long term. Some people are willing to pay a bit extra on the front-end to what they want/need. Some people choose Wal-Mart.

  10. #10
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    Default

    @ pangolin - There is no need to justify your pricing structure, that is up to the buyer.
    Pat B on alt.lasers


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