lighting truss

[oliverst14@hotmail.com]

hiya all

i think i have spoke about this before but im looking for advice on lighting truss, iv found the stuff i want so that aint a problem
im thinking of this
http://www.bluearan.co.uk/index.php?...eadnew=Lengths
http://www.bluearan.co.uk/index.php?...eadnew=Lengths

now the advice im needing is really how the hell this stuff is used correctly. now i know this sounds vauge but let me explain

basically i have a goalpost rig that is pretty poor and want something more sturdy and more proffesional looking now iv found some winch stands that i would like but i aint a clue how this would attach onto a goal post winch stand. what i was thinking is 2 x 150kg weight limit stands and a 3m section of the triangle global truss for the goal post stand but aint a clue how to acheive this.

another thing i was thinking is to possibly have the uprights as global truss then a corner then the top piece then a corner then down to the floor again. i have seen this done on stage setups but aint a clue how its physically done cause id have thought it would fall over.

another thing id like to know is how in large concerts fly the lighting truss in the air? now i know really big setups use electric and hydraulic winches but i aint got them so im wondering how this can be acheived.

basically im looking for as much help and advice on setting up a professional truss system. i like seeing a stage that looks good with all the lights off as well as on with truss in different directions and stuff.

i saw at creamfields this year them using a 1 or 2 meter section with yoke lights mounted on the front. i just couldnt work out how they were stopping it falling over.

if anyone has ever done elaborate truss setup and could help me with any of this please help

thanks alot ollie


ps i was thinking initially buying a 3m section of triangle with the 2 x 150kg winch stands and 2 x 1 m sections of the quad to stand on the ends to do a similar thing as i saw at creamfields and 2 x 2m sections for the same purpose.
then buy various other sections over time as all this stuff universally fits together as far as im aware. i want some quad sections to fly above the audiance to hang some yokes from as im restricted at the moment with using whats in the venue already and sometimes this is non existant or just in the wrong place.

what do u all think?

[norty303]

Vertical truss towers are done using big metal base plates, usually circular (and bloody heavy), and will support a truss lenth of a few metres. Smaller ones may get away with base plates depending on what you are putting on them.

With cross members, you can use uprights of truss at the ends but I find that lifts are much more versatile. To attach to the stands you'll need 'truss adaptors' to fit whatever size centre pole your lifts have.
http://www.thomann.de/gb/trussing_ad...for_lifts.html
There's quite a variety available depending on functionality and manufacturer.

Flown truss without winches of some sort is a pain if its over a few metres high as you have to be able to get up to it to rig, either long ladder (not really suitable if you're also carrying fixtures) or lift/hoist/cherrypicker of some sort. You can get manual chain hoists but even these are pricey and will require loler testing regularly. Better to hire in when required and get what you need. Don't be fooled by cheaper vehicle engine hoists and similar, the chains are too short for practical lighting use.
You'd attach truss to winches or other truss using couplers or slings of appropriate loading, then safety each of them too.
Of course, you're now entering into a difficult area of rigging, and not only being able to assess your loadings, but also the loadings of whatever you're attaching to. You're also entering an arena where you're likely flying heavier loads, so even bigger implications if it goes wrong. You've got your PLI sorted though right?

Also, beofre you go out and buy Global Truss, consider whether you will ever need to rent in extra. If you might then find out what is available local to you and get compatible stock - whilst there's nothing wrong with Global (I use it myself) you might not be able to rent the odd few extra bits when needed

[oliverst14@hotmail.com]

haha yes i have mate 2 million i fink

the flying at the moment is not my main concern tbh. its more the getting the stage right. i want it looking really professional and any tips are great.

do u know of anywhere to get these large metal base plates fella?

any pictures of how others set there stage up using trussing would be great.

cheers

there is a company that rent near me and they use global truss which is where i have first seen it

EDIT also sorry to keep editing this but iv seen this ultimax setup and was wondering how versitle this would be? iv seen it rated at 100kg but cant work out if this means the whole thing or inbetween each section. reckon if it was rated for each section it would be pretty good and if was versitile so i could add and remove it would be good too.
http://www.ultimax1.com/prodtype.asp...ageHistory=cat

what do people think?

cheers

[norty303]

its more the getting the stage right. i want it looking really professional

Sorry to bang on but your first concern should be to get it safe, then looking right.
You can get standard baseplates from Thomann for Global truss then you could use stage weights. You'd need to assess how secure it was. I've no idea how much the circular one would be, I think the ones we use were supplied by Colour Sound but I'd guess they were pretty expensive as you'd expect from a huge hunk of metal.

[oliverst14@hotmail.com]

yes i understand your concern on safety but iv never done anything that was dangerous doing my lighting yet which is the reason i come on here asking.

i basically wanna know how professional lighting companies do it and copy them lol that way i can pretty much guarantee its pretty safe although even those can make mistakes http://www.virtualfestivals.com/latest/news/3852

safety is a big thing with me anyway in my normal life away from doing lighting and sound as i work as a corgi registered gas engineer. im always doing (mental and writing) risk assesments for the jobs im completing and from being 16 have had health and safety drilled into me. its in my way of workng now. i also used to work at a nuclear power company where u couldnt fart without some sort of health and safety report coming out about it. lol

norty have u got many pictures of stage setups u have done for me to get some ideas? cheers

[pelosh]

HI

For everyone who is looking for good, solid truss for good money look here:

www.metalworx.co.uk

Guy you need to speak to is called Gavin.
I used them few times and always recieved top product, altered to my needs for lot less than from all those German truss companies.
Only difference is that they don't use quick-clip system. It's all nuts & bolts, but once built, it's solid as anything.
They'll be at Plasa in London in few days as well.

Cheers

[greenalien]

For better advice on staging and rigging, try the Blue Room forum http://www.blue-room.org.uk/

A good starting point is Chris Higgs's book http://www.amazon.co.uk/Introduction.../dp/1904031129

[DMills]

I second the recommendation for the Chris Higgs book (As well as the blue room, but do use the search facility on that site, this one has been done to death a hundred times already (Also watch the spelling and grammar, they are big on that). You might also want a copy of "Aluminium Structures in the Entertainment Industry" by Peter Hind.

You cannot simply copy what some professional show did and consider it safe as you do not know the imposed loads they were dealing with and do not have the supporting calculations. Truss loading drops rapidly with increasing span length.

There are industry norms for things like safety factors (but these depend on application), and most rigging design comes down to simple statics (moments around points and balance of forces), but you do need to do the math for your support structure and loading.

If you are flying in a venue, does it have rated (and tested) flying points? You need something to fix the truss to, and you need it to be rated to take the weight of the truss + lights + cable, if the venue does not have these (don't just use the roof support structure without checking with a structural engineer), then you would need them installed and tested.

All lifting equipment must be inspected periodically as per the requirements of the "Lifting operations and lifting equipment regulations", and yes, this includes things like winch up stands.

TBH, given your obvious lack of rigging knowhow, I would leave specifying and installing truss above an audience to a hired in rigger, it is a specialism in its own right).

Regards, Dan.