LaserBen issues

[Laser Ben]

I have not heard a single thing from him since my last post, he does not show up in my chat, and he has not replyed to my PM sent to him or sent me an email.

What I offered is this, I will refund everything I hadn't spent yet on the projector. I built a case, got aluminum for the base, got hardware, wire, connectors, and a whole bunch of other stuff.

When he first asked me to build this for him, I agreed to do it as a favor as I expected it to be pretty simple to bolt the stuff down and wire it up. When I got the lasers and galvos, they were completely covered in glue, everywhere, on the bottoms, sides, and the scanners had it on part of one of the mirrors.

I scraped off the glue and cleaned everything up as best as possible and then made a plate to mount everything down to. It was machined and tapped out of a nice piece of black aluminum tooling plate.

When I mounted down the lasers, and got everything set up, the red laser and the green laser were having problems. The green would turn on and then off periodically, and the red laser made a couple milliwatts with random artifacts all around the beam.

I told him this and he decided he was going to order another green laser. About three weeks later, it arrived at my house from Marc (gottaluvlasers) and I installed it on the plate only to discover that the beam height did not work properly with what I had designed.

I told him that I was having trouble with it and I would try and get it done as soon as possible. It was around that time that I also went to test the galvos with the FB3 he sent and discovered that it did not want to run. I told him that I was having problems with it and never heard anything back from him.

A couple days later, this thread showed up with him claiming that I blocked him on AIM, and that I didn't try and communicate with him at all. He sent me a message from a different AIM username, and I told him that I was going to ship the projector back to him once I got the stuff set up on with the lasers. He told me he wanted it shipped the same day, so I decided that it would be best to ship it all back to him as it was and let him decide what to do.

I shipped the stuff back the next day and he got it shortly there after. I realized that I forgot to send the Dichros out with the package, so I sent those out with another package full of some wire, a soldering iron, solder, hardware, and a bunch of connectors, including a breakout board for the ILDA signal.

When he got the package, he posts here that I have not contacted him at all and that he wants me to refund every penny of his $200 even though I already paid for shipping twice and built the case and bought a bunch of other stuff for the projector.

I sent him a PM a couple weeks ago, and heard nothing back from him, now again I sent him a PM and am waiting for a response, I have no problem refunding the part of his money that was not spent on parts he now has. I am not charging for my time, and am charging what I paid for the parts. I think that is pretty fair.

[mliptack]

I think I speak for a lot of the other members on this forum when I say that I am sick of hearing the bickering from both parties as well as the Ben-this, Ben-that crap.

Ben believe me I am not trying to beat a dead horse here. If you continue to help out members, do us all a favor, and write up a contract or something outlining everything you will and will not do for your client. It doesn't even have to be a "contract" but more of a 'this is what we agreed upon' statement. Let your clients look it over and come to some conclusion based upon what is expected out of your service. Don't do ANYTHING until you both fully understand what is (and can be) expected out of your services. Have them print out a copy, sign it, then pay shipping ($0.42) to have the contract returned - Problem solved.

Since I am sure there was nothing like a contract for this job, except for miles of email trails that I don't even bother to read when you do post them, instead do us a favor - Itemize what it is that you did purchase for this re-build. I don't want anyone to be cheated out of money, if you spent more than $200 on actual components then I suggest the feud gets dropped. Nexus the projector may not be built to an exact standard you were looking for, but components that you would have needed to be purchased anyway were now just bought for you by Ben. Any leftover money that Ben did not spend should be returned to DJ Nexus.

DJ Nexus, this applies to you too along with EVERYONE else on this forum. It doesn't take that much time to outline what it is that you are paying for someone to do, or are getting paid to do for someone. Come to a conclusion between both parties and then proceed with the service and payment. However Nexus, in your case, there was no contract, no signed agreement (that I know of) but I think its fair that for what Ben did purchase (ie Aluminum base plate etc.) he will not need to refund you for those components. As far as the soldering iron, solder, and random assortment of wires, hardware and connectors, if Ben wants those 'freebies' back I think it would be appropriate for him to purchase shipping to have DJ Nexus return them. I dont think they were necessary to ship them in the first place and I think it would be silly if Ben included that in his itemized invoice.

Ben, you are clearly a smart kid, you have a lot of potential, and it is always interesting to see someone with such as passion as you have at such a young age... we are all sick of hearing about the 'crap you pulled' whether or not thats how it happened. Just cover your own ass and write up a simple contract. If you need help with one - google it. It doesn't need to be written by a lawyer or in that cluttered terminology that is so prevalent in contracts. Instead make it something that both you and whoever you are helping can understand. All that's been happening lately is you and your clients trying to piece together a pseudo contract after something went wrong.

There are many mediators on this forum, that I am sure would be happy to assist to bring this to a settlement that both parties can mutually benefit from and keep both parties from feeling screwed.

I have nothing against either one of you. I would be more than happy to help settle this off of the forums, so we can all live on in our happy (non-bickering) world that we call Photon Lexicon.

[Laser Ben]

I think I speak for a lot of the other members on this forum when I say that I am sick of hearing the bickering from both parties as well as the Ben-this, Ben-that crap.

Ben believe me I am not trying to beat a dead horse here. If you continue to help out members, do us all a favor, and write up a contract or something outlining everything you will and will not do for your client. It doesn't even have to be a "contract" but more of a 'this is what we agreed upon' statement. Let your clients look it over and come to some conclusion based upon what is expected out of your service. Don't do ANYTHING until you both fully understand what is (and can be) expected out of your services. Have them print out a copy, sign it, then pay shipping ($0.42) to have the contract returned - Problem solved.

Since I am sure there was nothing like a contract for this job, except for miles of email trails that I don't even bother to read when you do post them, instead do us a favor - Itemize what it is that you did purchase for this re-build. I don't want anyone to be cheated out of money, if you spent more than $200 on actual components then I suggest the feud gets dropped. Nexus the projector may not be built to an exact standard you were looking for, but components that you would have needed to be purchased anyway were now just bought for you by Ben. Any leftover money that Ben did not spend should be returned to DJ Nexus.

DJ Nexus, this applies to you too along with EVERYONE else on this forum. It doesn't take that much time to outline what it is that you are paying for someone to do, or are getting paid to do for someone. Come to a conclusion between both parties and then proceed with the service and payment. However Nexus, in your case, there was no contract, no signed agreement (that I know of) but I think its fair that for what Ben did purchase (ie Aluminum base plate etc.) he will not need to refund you for those components. As far as the soldering iron, solder, and random assortment of wires, hardware and connectors, if Ben wants those 'freebies' back I think it would be appropriate for him to purchase shipping to have DJ Nexus return them. I dont think they were necessary to ship them in the first place and I think it would be silly if Ben included that in his itemized invoice.

Ben, you are clearly a smart kid, you have a lot of potential, and it is always interesting to see someone with such as passion as you have at such a young age... we are all sick of hearing about the 'crap you pulled' whether or not thats how it happened. Just cover your own ass and write up a simple contract. If you need help with one - google it. It doesn't need to be written by a lawyer or in that cluttered terminology that is so prevalent in contracts. Instead make it something that both you and whoever you are helping can understand. All that's been happening lately is you and your clients trying to piece together a pseudo contract after something went wrong.

There are many mediators on this forum, that I am sure would be happy to assist to bring this to a settlement that both parties can mutually benefit from and keep both parties from feeling screwed.

I have nothing against either one of you. I would be more than happy to help settle this off of the forums, so we can all live on in our happy (non-bickering) world that we call Photon Lexicon.

Thank you, here is an itemized list of what I spent, I do not have the reciepts for everything, so some of these are estimates, and if anything, below what it actually cost. I am not taking into account any of my time, or any of the extras I put in with the second shipment.

Plywood: $19.18 (3/4" Cabinet Grade Oak Ply based on area of the board I used)
Aluminum: $37.00 (Aluminum for base plate)
Assorted Hardware: $5.00
Paint for Case: $5.00
Wire and Connectors: $15.00
Shipping to DJNexus: $16.90
Shipping to DJNexus: $15.10

Total on these items I spent: $113.18
Total recieved minus paypal charges: $194.65
Total owed: $81.47

I have no problem refunding this amount, my initial estimates on how much was spent were not correct, when I checked back on what I spent through paypal, these are the correct amounts.

I am ready to refund the money to DJNexus, as I have been for a while. I am just waiting for him to contact me as he has not done so, or replied to my PM. I tried sending him a message over AIM today, and got no reply.

Josh, if you are out there, please reply to my PM.

Very good idea about the contract, next time I do any work for anyone, I will request that we make a contract first.

[mliptack]

You don't have any receipts?!?

Can you at least provide some sort of proof? A link to the baseplate you purchased (Assuming you bought online) email receipts... anything...

I think such proof would be best for DJ Nexus (it wouldn't need to be public info).

Just for future reference. Along with a contract, save receipts, that way you can make an exact itemized invoice.

Very good idea about the contract, next time I do any work for anyone, I will request that we make a contract first.

I've done a LOT of freelance work as a lighting designer, I have had contracts written up for work I did when I was 14 years old. Its there to relieve the hassle that you are clearly running into currently on the forum.

[Laser Ben]

The only things I have reciepts for is the shipping.

The wood was from the school wood shop. I know how I pay for the wood, so I was able to calculate the amount used.

The rest of the stuff, excluding the paint, was bought from a local electronics store called Halted Electronics.

[mliptack]

Lets wait for DJ Nexus to get back in on this conversation and you guys can work it out then. If you both feel comfortable with bringing me in as a mediator. As I mentioned I would be happy to do so.

I just figure if I can help settle some of the feuding on the board, it will help lighten the overall mood. I know no one enjoys it. I'll play the PL Street Sweeper for the time being. ;D

[Dj_Nexus]

Great mediation right there.....

Plywood for case: $14.68
Aluminum Plate: $37.00
Hardware: $5
Wire/Connectors: $5
Shipping Projector: $16.90
Shipping Dichros/Other: $15.00

That means the total I will return is: $106.42

That is the PM that was sent to me today. I truthfully can not believe that any of my IMs were never received every time I signed on, or seen him on.

The plate that I received does not fit anything where it is marked. Where the markings are to place the lasers and dichros do not fit when actually in place. The plate was drilled incorrect. I should not have to pay for that, or the extra shipping because you forgot something. Hence, all I received out of this deal was a bunch of hardware that is mostly useless, a black wooden box that I could have made myself, and all this wasted time.

[Laser Ben]

I went back and checked my math again, and got the actual amounts it cost. And no, your messages have not shown up to me, at all. And that plate that did not fit the parts as you claim, that is why the projector was not completed on time, because the work I had done to make it all fit together, was not correct with the red laser.

[Dj_Nexus]

My IMs haven't shown up at all? But, you can clearly see me because I received an IM from Spudstuff11

[17:40] djnexus: Hellllloooooooo/
[18:44] spudstuff11: hello?
[18:44] djnexus: hi

And no response

Don't play dumb. You can see me, I can see you. Talk

[mccarrot]

DJ nexus, i think you have made your point. There is no need to repeat stuff.

Laserben is trying to sort some things out, why don't you help him to fix this issue TOGETHER instead of keep blaming him.