Commercial NON Varienced laser shows

[ElektroFreak]

A real question is: Is this really a true problem? Obviously there are some "bad apple" laser operators out there, and consequently there are illegal shows going on regularly (and throughout the rest of the world in countries where governments have no real regulations). We all know the possible risks, especially at higher powers. Aside from the infamous Russian incident, I can't say I've heard of a single other occurrence of injury..

We might all be blowing the danger entirely out of proportion, but let's say we're not: What do we as a laser community do about it? Talk about the potential problems (which haven't happened yet)? Freak out that we're all going to be limited to 5mW? Those are worst case scenarios for a situation that has yet to be realized.

[allthatwhichis]

again, variances are a formality that nobody even knows about in the world of enforcement, so their existence is basically useless

This is until something bad does happen; then it is you ass, even if it was the fool that got the high powered "pointer" past security and started pointing at people's faces. You're screwed without your varience because people are going to ask questions.

[mixedgas]

[QUOTE=ElektroFreak;122769]A real question is: Is this really a true problem? Obviously there are some "bad apple" laser operators out there, and consequently there are illegal shows going on regularly (and throughout the rest of the world in countries where governments have no real regulations). We all know the possible risks, especially at higher powers. Aside from the infamous Russian incident, I can't say I've heard of a single other occurrence of injury..

Go over to the Rockwell Safety site and put laser show into the engine. More then 1, it shows technicians, but that counts . Rumors were flying around about a 700,000$ judgment last year against a non varied operator and the venue. There have been other cases around the world, but until the internet, reporting has been poor. Also go read the "gee, I got a burn" threads at LPF"

btw, one of the most famous people in laser shows, , has impared vision in one eye. That person looked down the bore of a large frame ion looking for a start pulse, while setting up for a show. It isnt in the RLI database.

Steve

[ElektroFreak]

I should say that I haven't heard of a single other report of audience injury. Working with lasers is hazardous. If I blind myself tomorrow, I'm not going to blame the laser community..

EDIT: tried to look it up on Rockwell, but there doesn't appear to be a search bar.. Just the russian incident on the first three pages of google..

I'm not saying there isn't the potential for accidents, all I'm saying is that they don't seem very common. At all. I would be more likely to shoot someone in a hunting accident than be injured by someone else's laser show (there's always a possibility something could go wrong with my own equipment at home..)

[mixedgas]

I should say that I haven't heard of a single other report of audience injury. Working with lasers is hazardous. If I blind myself tomorrow, I'm not going to blame the laser community..

EDIT: tried to look it up on Rockwell, but there doesn't appear to be a search bar.. trying google..

Opps, its entertainment.

http://www.rli.com/resources/accident.aspx

[flecom]

This is until something bad does happen; then it is you ass, even if it was the fool that got the high powered "pointer" past security and started pointing at people's faces. You're screwed without your varience because people are going to ask questions.

I am willing to bet money a variance is not going to help you much if someone decides to sue you

lets look at it from a different angle... what IS a variance? well, its two parts, for one its a way of registering your projector as a finished device... ok so now the FDA knows that your projector exists, that it (in theory) meets the "requirements" (whatever they are this week) and is capable of "safe" operation...

next is a variance for the event, venue, or whatnot... this is you saying that your going to follow XYZ rules (height, not audience scanning >5mw etc)

ok, so, again, whos to say any of the information on these variances is 100% factual? does someone come out with a power meter to make sure they are actually at the right height?

if you do get sued, how can you prove you were above the required height? or that you were putting out X power?

you really cant... theres a point where you can only document so much of what you do without it just being an undue burden...

and again, with little to no enforcement, what difference does it make? if you get sued and have a variance, the lawyers are probably going to laugh at it... they wont be suing your projector, they will be suing YOU

[mixedgas]

again, variances are a formality that nobody even knows about in the world of enforcement, so their existence is basically useless[/QUOTE]

What about Arizona where Miss Sonja is out on friday nights checking?

What about New York, where Class B is a pain in the neck.

Massachusetts, Illinios, New Jersey, where a laser needs to at least be registered if class IIIB and up? Many states request a letter to inform them of a install.

Texas, where any DPS agent can ask to see a permit?

Florida may be a lax enforcement region, but elsewhere inspections do happen!

Do a show on a major university campus or for a larger corporate client, and find out how quick their safety people start asking serious questions.

Inspections do happen, and will happen when you least expect it. I did not t expect to have a fire marshal show up in St Louis on the night before Christmas, but she did. She was hopping mad to be away from her kids on a holiday. Thank God it was on somebody eles's

Steve

[ElektroFreak]

Opps, its entertainment.

http://www.rli.com/resources/accident.aspx

16 occurrences. The VAST majority of which are technicians working the show or pilots flying through the show.. Two cases of audience members being affected including the Russian incident..

The pilots' cases were most disturbing to me, but if I were doing illegal laser shows in the US, I wouldn't be doing them outdoors with multi-watt systems. Kind of attracts a bit of attention...

[flecom]

ok, i will explain again why i think the entire system of variances is completely stupid...

a variance says that a projector has the proper safety systems, and that the venue meets requirements to be safe...

to me this is like saying, a car is safe, therefore it gets a variance, and a road is safe, so it gets a variance, and now anyone that sits in the drivers seat of that car will automagically be a safe driver!

as stupid as that sounds, thats how stupid variances for laser projectors/shows sound to me...

the OPERATOR is the one thats going to blind people

oh and i dont intend to do any public shows so i dont care either way, im just saying the system seems really stupid to me

[allthatwhichis]

I am not worried about you getting sued; The authorities, whoever they are that are not bothering to inspect you currently, will be investigating you after this hypothetical blinding by the high powered pointer. They will want to see your varienced projector just because it was in the same place as someone getting blinded by the fool with the "pointer". If you have a varience, in this instance, the authorities will look at your paperwork, and know you are a safe operator; if you don't have a varience, who knows what they will do to you and this is assuming everyone knows there was a fool with a pointer. My point is a varience is not useless just because you know you are not a fool; there are fools out there, and some of them have high powered hand held lasers. Which will bring the authorities to you...

That is not saying the system is not stupid, but it what is in place; if you want to change the game you have to start by playing it by the rules.