X-Laser

[Banthai]

I always go on first impressions ...

and Dan .... came over as a 1000% sorta guy ...

no bull shit which is what we like ( apart from photos )

all the best ... Karl

[DanG]

My question for you is, if you can submit product reports for Laserworld projectors to obtain variances, why can't you do them for your own and leave them to themselves? I mean, what does Laserworld do so well that X-Laser can not do? Sub-assemblies?
You recently came out with the Mobile Beat and the RGBV projectors that both looked AWESOME. The XA100 that I reviewed was great as well.
I guess I dont understand why you need Laserworld to be a part of your company.
You were doing fine on your own!

Interesting video... had not seen that. There is a bit more to the story BUT let me get my facts straight before I go down that road.

Part of what makes our lasers a little more expensive than some is that we intentionally do things in a way that is less efficient, in the business sense, but that result in better quality control. LaserWorld has some really high quality engineering with a few unique attributes which make their designs rather desirable. This is what I was saying in the other thread about the difference between system integration and "manufacturing" proper and never the twain shall meet.

We did not do product reports on LW's projectors that they sell around the world. We got product reports done on X-Laser projectors which mostly make use of LW's engineering and sub-assembly sourcing. We then take what works well for us, leave what does not, and re-work what needs re-working for our market. That makes the first two sentences much more than a semantic distinction.

The Mobile Beat that you mentioned, for example, is made in some version or another by a dozen companies around the world however they cannot get certification on them because our R&D took the engineering and re-worked it. We then developed an extensive - in hindsight annoyingly extensive - certification process for them and bundled all of that up into a compliant product.

The US is a very strange place to make lasers but we have developed some very creative and highly unique ways of meeting and often exceeding the certification criteria while still managing to make a competitively priced product.

While suppose that is the very basis of capitalism though there are a couple of folks out there in the world who are both extremely critical of our products and feel that we have somehow gamed the system because we (along with nearly every other manufacturer in the world I might add) won't release our R&D data and certifications to anyone other than the FDA. We have been accused of nearly everything shortly of being at the grassy knoll over the past few years and the bottom line is that that is the nature of customer service. Anyone who has worked a retail counter at Christmas can appreciate that.

That does not decrease or abridge the feelings of someone who feels that they have been wronged, but I would submit to you all that along with manufacturer error which must be acknowledged and a spot check based QC program instead of a full piece QC program, there are other factors that can and do exacerbate the events which lead to these kinds of tidal waves of public opinion. (I think my English teacher would have shot me for that sentence.)

So that was the long way of saying that for all of the issues which have existed here regarding LW's products - in truth the responsibility for which does lay partially, but only partially, with LW - they do some things very well and that is what interests us.

However, for the end user all that matters is that they get what they paid for and insofar as the end user has a realistic expectation of what the product can and should do at the price point, then it is up to the company to fulfill that to the greatest extent possible.

Where it is not possible, you slug it out and then go have a beer.

I've typed your ears off enough... more later if you are interested.

[mixedgas]

"We have been accused of nearly everything shortly of being at the grassy knoll over the past few years"

Man,can I borrow this line from time to time? What a great description of the laser industry!

And your not alone on disclosing the certification data. NO WAY would I do that.

Steve

[DanG]

Sure man, just when you quote me please fix the typo. =)

[instinct]

I am glad I made this thread.. I haven't been back to check it in a while.

[buffo]

Hey guys;

Sorry to grave-dig, but I'm posting in this old thread to clarify some things that were said earlier. For one, it turns out that Dan is absolutely correct: Once the filing is complete, you can legally perform shows, even if you haven't received an answer from the CDRH. You must carry a copy of the paperwork with you for every show, along with proof that it was submitted to the CDRH, but you can still do the show.

You won't find this written in any document, but several people have visited the CDRH in person and/or called them on the phone, and in each case they've been told that yes, this is acceptable. Since the CDRH doesn't have the manpower to process the variances in a timely manner, this is the only solution they could come up with that doesn't impede commerce. (Impeding commerce is a violation of their charter.)

Note that if an inspector discovers a problem with your variance while on site, you can still be fined. Merely filing the paperwork doesn't give you a license to do whatever you want, so you're going to want to be sure that 1) your application is in order, before you send it, and 2) you are absolutely following the safety procedures and show layout that you specified in the application.

Also, with regard to some of the skepticism aimed at X-laser and Dan Goldsmith personally, let me say that after my visit to their facility, I am embarrassed at how quick I was to judge them. X-laser is, in my opinion, doing everything they can to be safe *and* legal. Dan in particular is quite knowledgeable, and my impression is that he is an honest and fair businessman.

For more information about X-laser, have a look at the review I posted recently. It's a long read, but I think it will give you some real insight as to what kind of company X-laser is.

Adam