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Thread: Lets light this fire.... Bad KVANT experiences???

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by carlos3621 View Post
    Lets look on the Bright side:

    your CNI blue is putting out 150 - 200 mw of visible , for 1,500.00
    CTlasers has 150 mw of blue for 1,400.00.

    i think you got exactly what you paid for, and nothing more (actually you did get a little more than what you paid for)

    thats why i told Luke not to worry about it. I still got what I paid for and then some, I am just unhappy with Kvant selling something at a discount thinking they need to honor nothing, not even honesty itself

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    Quote Originally Posted by pelosh View Post
    We did sell probably 30-50 units few months ago...all old and faulty which was clearly stated on the website. i.e. 500mW 532nm CNI laser - real output 10mW. Price 10 euro+shipping. It's quite clear what does it mean, isn't it?

    Sticker on that is probably the original that was there when it was new.
    All those modules were complete bargain!
    And don't say I (we) don't care about our customer - I wouldn't spent all this time typing these PMs.
    Just so it is clear, this laser is not one of the "advertised as 10mw" units sold a couple of months ago that Martin is trying to suggest that this is. Martin, how about be a little bit more professional and look up the unit that was sold. I have provided the serial number and you have the name, go from there.
    Last edited by dream beamz; 12-11-2009 at 16:22.

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    Hi there, let me say something here. I purchased this laser advertised as a 500mW Blue laser putting out "400mW" It was also said to be in "good" condition. Because the laser was purchased over 6 months ago I cannot search my online bank records for it so I will have to go to the bank and get a copy of the wire if it is necessary. Whoever it was who asked why I did not bring this up before it is because I did not know that my lasercheck was measuring IR and 473nm. Why would I suspect that it is spewing hefty amounts of IR? Besides I was told it was putting out 400mW blue. When I find out there is a problem with a laser I purchase I post it here as was the case with my red and green lasers that also turned out to be crap. 0 for 3. Pretty good record on my purchases. The problem here is that someone advertised this laser to be putting out 400mW and in fact it was only outputting 200mW. Also there was no warning that it was an IR spewer. I can see exactly why Dreambeamz is attacking Kvant for this and I personally will stay away from doing business with them as it is clear what kind of business practices they have. Regardless of whether a product is on discount or not the item should be tested and advertised accuretly and honestly. This is called Bait and switch.

  4. #24
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    yobresal, was this purchased as a new item with warranty? or closeout deal?

    i assume closeout?
    go big or go home

  5. #25
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    Well... this specific unit has gone around the block... apparently

    The 473 mentioned here has in fact spent some time with me... a whole lotta time actually. It was only ran on a few occasions (probably <50 hours total time with me), that is including FLEM and SELEM, where it did make it to both! Prior to being with me, Luke hardly ran it (from what I was told).

    I believe the brightness of 473 to 440 is almost 3:1 (where's tocket when you need him?). I recall (all FLEM attendees should recall this too) that the KVANT 440 in aaron's projector was as bright as this 473, maybe even slightly brighter in some cases. Both had roughly the same power as his had a 1/2 W unit in it. I was also a unhappy with that since 473 should be much brighter... Adam, do you recall me commenting about that? But at the time, I had never doubted KVANT or the measurement from my thermal meter. I had also not tested the 473 for IR output.

    Also, Luke's thread explaining the dissatisfaction with the lasers is on this forum too.

    Regarding the 1W green... I have that one. Labeled as 1W green, with a KVANT S/N. Here are a couple of things to note about this unit:

    1. My opinion about the 1W green
    the 1-Watt green... ya, it's fucked... It needs a new crystal set... the YAG is burnt from one side, seems to have been overdriven... the LBO is suspect for thermal damage as well... So, ya... It's a useless paperweight since it takes about $1000 to bring it back up...
    2. The opinion of a MUCH more knowledgeable person about the 1W green
    Yes that is severely damaged. I would suspect that the LBO has undergone thermal issues as well. Typical of the devastation of too much power for the crystal set....prolly a 600-750 mw laser from CNI.....then ********* at ************** turned it way up. If it is not from **************** I will be very surprised. It is possible that the pump spot may have been too broad for the crystal to use all the power that was present. Pump spot not properly adjusted for the mode volume...looks like a 5mm x 5mm yag....typical for this type of laser. These things are not that hard to damage....
    See the attached image showing the damage to the crystal. This does not look good.

    I had a few units I was going to buy from KVANT, but I will not deal with them... not anytime soon... especially after all what I've heard so far.

    --DDL
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by daedal; 12-11-2009 at 19:03. Reason: WTF? Where's my image?
    I suffer from the Dunning–Kruger effect... daily.

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    Quote Originally Posted by clandestiny View Post
    yobresal, was this purchased as a new item with warranty? or closeout deal?

    i assume closeout?
    The 473 and the 532 were both purchased from the bazzar.

    The point stands that the listed item is not even close to the received item. I actually contacted KVANT regarding a couple units I wanted from the bazzar... the response was very delayed, and no information was provided, even though I did ask...

    All the comments I got told one thing "used... no warranty"

    --DDL
    I suffer from the Dunning–Kruger effect... daily.

  7. #27
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    I'm neutral on this situation but I figure I'd put in my $.02 for what it's worth.

    First, I don't pay $1,500 for ANYTHING without first doing my homework and speaking with the seller in detail. I love specs and details! I'll digg and see what my options are (in writing) if I have a problem post purchase. If the item is stated "AS IS - no warranty",,, I ALWAYS consider that a gamble and MOST of the time the deal was not in my favor. Now, I keep receipts for everything. If you have a reciept stating otherwise. Then it should be honored. As I always say, "You get what you pay for".

    Second, Kvant should maybe consider not selling old/broken/non-functional inventory without some kind of warranty or not at all. I know exactly how this goes. We used to have a "Bargin Basement" section on our used copier website without warranties and these were the machine sales with the toughest customers. They figure they would just get a perfect copier for rock bottom prices and we should honor any little problem they had with them. For $1K-$2K a copier, we had no room for any sort of warranty and we stated it. After all the BS we had to deal with we discontinued our bargin basement and kept doing what we do best.

    Third, customer service is just as important as the product weather the item is big or small. I had MANY repeat customers that have grown with their big purchases over the years because I handle all possible issues very carefully. Now, you can't please everybody, but you sure can try. The customer is NOT always right, but if handled correctly, the customer can become satisfied with a little extra time and patience. I'd say 70% of my "Bargin Basement" customers ended up happy. I may have had to spend a few extra minutes finding them a local tech to come and ollk at their copier or maybe send them a $15 toner cartridge, but it was well worth it in the long run. What do lasers have to do with copiers?? Absolutely nothing! (Well, most copiers have lasers in their imaging units but they are all shitty wavelengths! ) My point is, their is usually a way to turn an unhappy customer into a happy one with a little extra time and business savoy.

    Fourth, Just like "Bargin Basement" copiers, I'm sure these lasers didn't get the royal treatment, closest trained eye inspection. I highly doubt Kvant used beam profiliers and spectrometers to catalog their "used junk" inventory. They probably just sat someone down with a power meter and told them to catalog the output, model number and serial number. (That's exactly what I would have done lasers wise, copiers require other things, even in the bargin basement.)

    The point being, a 500mW 473+IR laser can EASILY be passed as a 500mW @ 473 laser especially if the laser is "known" to have a good working IR filter. I personally wouldn't hold this against Kvant because they sold this laser as-is, at a considerable discount based on the fact it did not come with a warranty or in depth inspection.


    My $.02 was more like $200 but I hope this helps....
    Adam

  8. #28
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    hmmm, tough situation. used as is, but advertised as outputting 400mw

    especially since thermally it would be at spec- though not visibly

    tough to prove mal intent or not

    well, as always buyer beware
    go big or go home

  9. #29
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    i have views on both sides of this coin...

    and for the record, i have never dealt personally with KVANT. never bought anything from them, but in all honesty, i probably would.

    that being said, i have been "rubbed wrong" by the way KVANT seems to deal with their sales and reputation on this forum. It always seems to be the intent of, "We are KVANT, our shit dont stink. Here us roar!" I dont like that. and many people see through that.

    I have said it before, KVANT- i know, you know, most people here know that you do indeed make a great product, but you need to understand that you are a manufacturing company. you *do* make mistakes. you *do* have faulty products, you *do* suffer from the same problems as almost every other manufacturer of lasers out there.

    I sell Laserwave products. they have and i have a great reputation for quality, but i have had my share of defective components. in the 2 years i have been selling laserwave, i have never ONCE (literall, not one time) (and quite a few members here can confirm this) denied a laser repair or even a replacement of a laser that one of my customers has had problems with. in warranty or even out of warranty. (within obvious limits. if the laser arrives to me with water pouring out of it, it aint gonna get fixed/repaired. but thats has never happened).

    what is it worth to piss a customer off?? why? i can honestly say, that of those customers, i could say with 90% confidence that they ALL purchased more products after. Defective alsers can be torn down and rebuilt. the customer should not have to suffer for "technicalities" of how a sale was worded.

    I dont think Georges problem is with the 400mW of IR. i think (and george, correct me if im wrong) that his biggest problem is HOW this situation was handled...

    "We are KVANT, me dont make mistakes. you bought it, now deal with it." that will never get you return customers. i am quite sure that if this was spoken out, dealt with, researched and even offered some sort of a compromise, i dont think george would have ANY problems.

    I think he just wanted to fell like he was being treated with respect and offered a solution to a problem.

    i have said this a thousand times...and i keep on saying it...a company isnt defined on how good its products are alone. they are defined on how they treat their mistakes. ALL companies and ALL people make mistakes and have defects. its how those derogatory events are handled by the companys representatives that will prove what type of dignity and "honor" the company posesses.

    KVANT...you have great products. you, for the most part have a superb reputation. nobody is doubting that. but it may serve you best to bump the "our shit dont stink" atitude down a notch or so.

    I think this could have been handled MUCH more professionally. even by your own post of the chat records. i would never speak to a customer of mine like that. even a potential customer.

    -Marc
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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by daedal View Post
    The 473 and the 532 were both purchased from the bazzar.

    The point stands that the listed item is not even close to the received item. I actually contacted KVANT regarding a couple units I wanted from the bazzar... the response was very delayed, and no information was provided, even though I did ask...

    All the comments I got told one thing "used... no warranty"

    --DDL
    yeh, i guess this should be expected. Even Laserworld gives more of a response for the sale of their used items. You might have to kick and scream but eventually you will get a replacement. A sad sad statement in reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by clandestiny View Post
    hmmm, tough situation. used as is, but advertised as outputting 400mw

    especially since thermally it would be at spec- though not visibly

    tough to prove mal intent or not

    well, as always buyer beware
    The laser says on it "500mw blue" on it. Nothing about IR. I am not talking about the class IV 500mw sticker either.

    Quote Originally Posted by gottaluvlasers View Post
    I dont think Georges problem is with the 400mW of IR. i think (and george, correct me if im wrong) that his biggest problem is HOW this situation was handled...

    "We are KVANT, me dont make mistakes. you bought it, now deal with it." that will never get you return customers. i am quite sure that if this was spoken out, dealt with, researched and even offered some sort of a compromise, i dont think george would have ANY problems.

    I think he just wanted to fell like he was being treated with respect and offered a solution to a problem.
    Exactly, I actually talked to a few people prior to today with no actual hopes of getting a replacement laser. I was satisfied with the purchase overall and still thought I got a good deal to include the 473nm laser.

    Quote Originally Posted by gottaluvlasers View Post
    I think this could have been handled MUCH more professionally. even by your own post of the chat records. i would never speak to a customer of mine like that. even a potential customer.

    -Marc
    Yes, really I cannot believe Martin post all of the PM's, unedited. It really makes him look kind of bad. Also, referring to a customers opinion as "this long nonsense" really doesnt shine well to me or probably anyone else.
    Last edited by dream beamz; 12-11-2009 at 20:03.

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