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Thread: Lets light this fire.... Bad KVANT experiences???

  1. #31
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    clandestiny is offline Eleventy-Billion Watt Ar/Kr >:)
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    Unhappy

    if seller a offers a 400-500mw blue for 1500.00, most lexiconers would be skeptical and would probably want to demo the unit etc- or have an understanding of a return etc-

    based on reputation of said seller as well- important to this story

    I think what has happened is that lasers were purchased with the perceived expectation
    they would be getting something along the lines of what kvant sells in new turn key units-

    that wasnt the case

    my thought would have been if they are unloading them in a basement sale there might be a reason why-

    unfortunate that yobresal would spend good money and it didn't work out- especially two dud units- that would put a bad taste in anyones mouth , as well as a let down for the hobby-

    I'm not defending kvant, its just a sad experience for all parties-

    no ones immune from losses in this field though- i have my share believe me
    go big or go home

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by clandestiny View Post
    if seller a offers a 400-500mw blue for 1500.00, most lexiconers would be skeptical and would probably want to demo the unit etc- or have an understanding of a return etc-

    based on reputation of said seller as well- important to this story

    I think what has happened is that lasers were purchased with the perceived expectation
    they would be getting something along the lines of what kvant sells in new turn key units-

    that wasnt the case

    my thought would have been if they are unloading them in a basement sale there might be a reason why-

    unfortunate that yobresal would spend good money and it didn't work out- especially two dud units- that would put a bad taste in anyones mouth , as well as a let down for the hobby-

    I'm not defending kvant, its just a sad experience for all parties-

    no ones immune from losses in this field though- i have my share believe me

    yobresal got 4 bad lasers total. 2 KVANT lasers, one CNI and One Lasever. The CNI and Lasever can be repaired and appeared to have been damaged in shipping at one time, I have not bothered to attempt a repair on the KVANT unit because I know for sure there is no way the power supply would ever drive a pump diode large enough for 400 to 500mw of blue.

  3. #33
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    Right!

    This is my last comment on this as I don't see the point of whole thing (I mean this forum scramble).
    All I see here is that it gives good oportunity to some people to blame us for everything... ...mostly for the stuff that's not true ..well we all sometimes need place to ventilate our issues, don't we..

    First of all, I am no sure who told you this Gottaluvlasers:

    "We are KVANT, we don't make mistakes. you bought it, now deal with it."

    If there is ONE MY customer who experienced this please come forward and tell me
    Also you might be surprise with the fact that if something goes really wrong with our stuff, KVANT's engineer flyes even to the other side of the planet just for repairs (obviously if the problem is reasonable) - pretty good service I think.

    Now..someone pointed on lack of communication from our side ... well to be honest I never heard from this person called Luke. All the facts I know now were discovered in this thread ... THAT'S what I call lack of communication.

    If you buy old Trabant with one broken cilinder from BMW dealer and than blame them that it runs slow, it is quite difficult to deal with it as everyone (except you in this case) expected it to run slow Therefore, they would not probably even tested it whether it can reach its top speed or not before the sale. Of course that for selling purposes they will say:"Old broken Trabant for sale" and not:"Scrap for sale", but price of $10 (before shipping) would probably indicate the condition of it.

    However, I feel sorry for poor Luke as this was unfortunatelly not good first experience with lasers and leaded to the end of his laser orientated interests . That's not right Luke - lasers are normally great fun - unless you deal with us of course.

    If you read this Luke please send me PM with your phone number. I'll call you and we can discuss this normal way.

    Thanks

  4. #34
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    as for the laconic answers to e-mails from Kvant, i assume it's because they do a lot of out-of-office support on various events, so the guys are quite busy i guess
    it took me 2 weeks to arrange the measurement of lasers at their HQ because of this - but i'm no customer of theirs (yet) so there is no obligation to treat me as one
    my advantage is when i buy a unit from them and i won't be satisfied i can personally go there to solve issues

  5. #35
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    Its a pity you're not in the UK as UK law Sale of Goods Law regarding descriptions applies to anything sold in the course of a business even if sold as 2nd hand.

    That said, you'd still have to prove that it failed to meet its description at the date it was sold, not easy given the time that has passed although obviously you have some anecdotal but unscientific evidence from the person who took it to FLEM.

    I think you are very dependant on the goodwill of Kvant in this situation therefore unless US law gives you some form of protection. Its unfortunate that Kvant aren't willing to accept that it was under power when purchased. Clearly you can't expect Kvant to replace it if it had subsequently become faulty after purchase given it was sold unwarrantied, but if you could show it was below spec at purchase or bring forward enough evdience from others at FLEM to convince KVANT that it was under power when purchased them maybe they would reconsider their position.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by White-Light View Post
    Its a pity you're not in the UK as UK law Sale of Goods Law regarding descriptions applies to anything sold in the course of a business even if sold as 2nd hand.

    That said, you'd still have to prove that it failed to meet its description at the date it was sold, not easy given the time that has passed although obviously you have some anecdotal but unscientific evidence from the person who took it to FLEM.
    Re: UK law Does anyone in the UK want to purchase this unit after I prove it? That would be the ultimate way to put KVANT in their place. I am working on a way I can send the unit to CNI at my expense both ways just to prove it was never even close to a 500mw unit. The sticker on the unit is like no other sticker I have ever seen from CNI. Even if I get nothing else out of it but to make KVANT look bad for only this case (well and the 1 watt 532nm of course)

    Quote Originally Posted by pelosh View Post
    Right!
    This is my last comment on this as I don't see the point of whole thing (I mean this forum scramble).
    Yes, I expected this the second this thread did not start to go your way. You sure saw the whole point of this forum scramble when you posted up private messages. I dont feel as if I "won" but to me I did not think there was any winning to this issue. It is unfortunate for everyone.

    Quote Originally Posted by pelosh View Post
    First of all, I am no sure who told you this Gottaluvlasers:

    "We are KVANT, we don't make mistakes. you bought it, now deal with it."
    Quote Originally Posted by pelosh View Post
    I discussed your case with KVANT's general manager and we are not prepared for any compensation what so ever!
    That says it all, I am glad to know that KVANT's general manager is so well trained in good customer service. You do realize that you have not yet once commented on the serial number of this unit or other good points brought up in conversation here. Duck and cover I guess. Like I told you from the start, I dont need this laser, I have plenty more that are much more powerful. I got upset the second you treated me like a pile of dog poo.

    You should have handled this situation like this:

    Quote Originally Posted by what you should have done
    I am sorry to hear about your bad situation. I have looked up the serial number and determined that it was sold as a bargain basement deal with no warranty over a year ago. About the IR leaking, it is quite possible this unit could have been measured incorrectly with coherent powermax meter. We assumed that because it had a high quality IR filter because it came from CNI. Please send the unit to us at your expense and we will take a look at the IR leaking problem since this is a safety issue. I dont think there is anything we can do about the Visible light power level but we will make sure the laser was sold with an honest and accurate description on our end.

  7. #37
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    Why does does a company like KVANT sell anything bargin basement? I don't think you can buy egg shaped tires from Goodyear at $2 each. The reason is (besides safety) they want every tire to reflect Goodyear's name as quality tires.

    If KVANT does sell off some of their old lasers, why do they not put labels on them as "Used, NO Warranty and NO Guarantee"?

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by pelosh View Post
    I discussed your case with KVANT's general manager and we are not prepared for any compensation what so ever!
    Luke did not claim anything and it is quite clear why...he must new what he is buying (we never misslead) which you obviously didn't.

    This might be true, and you might instead make mistakes, but it really sounds dismissive, as if you have no intention of giving this case any real thought since you "never mislead". There's a first time for everything..

    The act of "misleading" doesn't have to be intentional, it can also be accidental, by not properly labeling the product for example.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phredy1 View Post
    Why does does a company like KVANT sell anything bargin basement? I don't think you can buy egg shaped tires from Goodyear at $2 each. The reason is (besides safety) they want every tire to reflect Goodyear's name as quality tires.

    If KVANT does sell off some of their old lasers, why do they not put labels on them as "Used, NO Warranty and NO Guarantee"?
    All companies sell items like this (although to stay with the tire reference it got Firestone in trouble around 10 years ago), I dont think many people have a problem with a company selling discount items. And I do believe it was sold with no warranty. The problem is the item was misrepresented in order to make the sale.

    If I sold you a 3 watt laser advertised as outputting 2 watt, and when you got it you found out it was putting out 1 watt then you would be highly upset since it never output the advertised 2 watt.

  10. #40
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    To be honest... To me, KVANT now belongs in the "LaserWorld-like pile of shit vendors" category. As a matter of fact, LaserWorld will actually reply back with some reasoning, or charge you to do a repair!

    This better be an individual case of bad miscommunication. Not sure anyone would be paying dearly to later be dismissed as "we've not done this for 5 years... so cry me a river". God knows if I pay $$$$$$$ for a projector, I better get support for as long as I use it! They need to learn from others in the business... or get out of business. Simple as that. When was the last time you heard of a laser reaching EOL in 5 years? Shit, HeNe's from the 1960's can probably still be sent to Newport for repairs! Even if you're not the original owner! And that's more like 50 years.

    In the end, I see that the true measurement that George has done on this unit makes perfect sense! A supposed 400mW of 473 light, when it's mostly IR, should be repaired at the seller's expense, or refunded... no matter when the discovery was made. Just because you summed it up into the "We sold many old and half dead units very cheap to people who wanted to play with it or maybe repair it" doesn't mean anything to your credibility... that actually destroys it! You completely dismissed the IR claim, the never acknowledged the serial number. You obviously suck at keeping records as well. Up until your last post, you referred to Luke as "this person called Luke". You obviously have no record of the transaction, sale, or otherwise recorded anything about this unit. You probably do not even have a copy of your flimsy sale ad showing just "rated ###, measured ###, picture, and the price". It's probably "history" by now. He's a freaking customer of yours! Bargain or not, he's still a customer who paid lots of money, and got squat!

    BTW: does this mean that the listed 900mW 650nm red on your bazzar is an "old and half dead unit very cheap to people who wanted to play with it or maybe repair it"? I'd not really think that 900mW of red for 1000Eur is a very "cheap" laser! Go ask LaserWave how much you can get with that much money... from the "bargain basement" nonetheless, if they ever had one.

    --DDL
    I suffer from the Dunning–Kruger effect... daily.

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