Eyemagix - Magic Box

[ClearBlu]

Point taken Bill, and I apologise for jumping to the conclusion that you hadn't followed that route of privately discussing the inaccuracies.
All I can say about Clive is manically obsessive about this industry in the same way you yourself are. Face to face you won't find a more genuine,helpful and decent guy (with a wiff of mad scientist thrown in).
I don't think responses would have been the same if everyone knew the full facts.
Without them I think you can see why people would jump to certain conclusions Bill and I'm bound to jump to Clive's defence as I've known him in business since the 90's and he's always come through with tech support and always treats people as equals.

[Pangolin]

Understood and agreed. It's certainly easy to get carried away. I've seen it, and done it

[ClearBlu]

What I forgot to add there Bill is Clive is not dissimilar to yourself, within 30 seconds of a conversation most people can be lost and just nod politely and agree when really we want to say ' explain the first 20 seconds as I'm lost '
Can you explain things slower
;-)

[Laser Electronics Ltd]

Hi Bill and All
Firstly my apologies if my post came across as being hostile, I did not mean it to be so.

I just want to deal with one point at a time so I will post this link first regarding the Commodore 64 and Commodore Amiga computers.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amiga

These are the same family of computers and programmed in Basic for there derivative language but various C compilers were later developed for the Z84 derivative in the Amiga

As Bill will know this generation of basic programming was a derivative of the Z80 series adopted by numerous companies, this coding was then refined and developed into the RISC programming way back in the 80s at Cambridge in the UK that also provided the first generation or ARM processors.

I will also deal with Bill's accusations of me copying graphics that were provided by Michael L Roberts, Laser Media when they dissolved the company and the end user licence we use that was provided to me by MSDN.

I am travelling at the moment but will try to reply as soon as possible.

Thanks
Clive.

[Pangolin]

In the interest in preventing further OT comments:
http://www.photonlexicon.com/forums/...333#post293333

[Laser Electronics Ltd]

Hi Bill
I have replied to your comments in the new thread you created, but in respect of history do you not think it would be better to let the history be public, it's Memorial Day, embrace history and where we have come from.
Thanks
Clive

[michelrietveld]

thank you all for replying, i know so much more now about the product LOL

[Pangolin]

but in respect of history do you not think it would be better to let the history be public

SolarFire and TechJunkie correctly pointed out that this had gone OT and, moreover, that it was at least partially my fault that it had gone OT. I was trying to keep the topics separated.

But regarding history, you had already injected two new topics (L. Michael Roberts frames, and the source of your license agreement). If you are concerned about history and the coherence of a thread for the viewing public, then you should have posted your comments here:
http://www.photonlexicon.com/forums/...e-kettle-black

it's Memorial Day, embrace history and where we have come from.

I appreciate the worldly view, but thought Memorial Day was for remembrance of fallen US soldiers:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memorial_Day

Bill

[buffo]

I just want to deal with one point at a time so I will post this link first regarding the Commodore 64 and Commodore Amiga computers. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amiga

Did you even read the Wikipedia article you just linked to? If you had, you would have seen that it clearly states that the Amiga "provided a significant upgrade from 8-bit computers, such as the Commodore 64". That does not say anything about them being in the same "family". Quite the opposite, actually.

These are the same family of computers and programmed in Basic for there derivative language

WRONG! All of the Amiga OS code was written in C, and most applications were written either in C or assembler. Yes, the Amiga also included a Basic interpreter, but so did every other computer released in the 1980's.

You clearly don't know what you're talking about when it comes to the Amiga. And Bill's original point still stands: Pangolin's software has *NOTHING* to do with the Commodore 64. The Amiga and the Commodore 64 are completely different machines with wildly different architectures, operating systems, and peripheral device support. You still haven't admitted your mistake, and when you try to defend yourself, you post a link to an article which PROVES that you are wrong... Wow - just, wow...

various C compilers were later developed for the Z84 derivative in the Amiga

What in the hell are you talking about? There never was a "Z84 derivative" in the Amiga line. EVER.

Man, you really are confused about your CPU history... It's been Motorolla all the way for the Amiga line.

this generation of basic programming was a derivative of the Z80 series adopted by numerous companies, this coding was then refined and developed into the RISC programming way back in the 80s at Cambridge in the UK that also provided the first generation or ARM processors.

THIS HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO TO WITH THE AMIGA! The Amiga was always a CISC machine while under Commodore's wing, from the original 68000 CPU all the way through the 68060. Commodore *NEVER* released an Amiga that used a RISC processor. EVER. (And don't forget that Commodore went under back in 1994, back when RISC was still a very new concept for desktop machines anyway.)

Admittedly there was a power-PC clone of the Amiga that came out long after Commodore folded, but it was a software-only version. (All they did was licence the name and the OS.) The hardware was standard server class stuff that you could buy anywhere. None of the custom ICs from the AGA chipset were kept. All their functions were emulated in software and re-targeted to industry standard PCI cards. So it really was a stretch to call those machines "Amigas" (and in fact, they were marketed variously as clones and emulators of the Amiga). Sure, they ran the OS, but that was it. All the custom chips that made the Amiga special were long gone.

Also, it's worthy to note that the Power-PC version of the Amiga operating system was only released in the late 1990's after the Amiga name had been sold not once, not twice, but 3 separate times! I know, because back when Escom owned the Amiga name (and all their IP) I actually did some consulting work for them and prepared a demo showing what the CD32 architecture was capable of in a TV set-top-box environment. I lived and breathed this operating system for a good 10 years of my life, so I have a pretty good idea what I'm talking about. (As Bill certainly does.)

Bottom line: It's painfully clear that you don't know shit about the Amiga, or the Commodore 64. So stop making statements about Bill's company and it's involvement with the machines. If you can't talk intelligently about the machines in the first place, you certainly have no business making statements about someone else's work with them.

Adam

[Pangolin]

Actually Adam I honestly think something's wrong with Clive, and I'm not trying to be mean. His sentences are completely missing words and are incoherent. I'm not sure if it is medication or what. Even other posts here on PL are incoherent. At first I took offense to his original post. If it is taken at face value, it accuses us of literally stealing Laser Media graphics. But if it was written by someone who is heavily medicated then that's a different story, and I feel a bit bad about my harsh and pointed response. (Being understanding of my fellow man never was one of my strong suits...)