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Thread: Laser nightlights and assorted stupidity

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
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    SoCal / San Salvador / NY
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    Lightbulb

    Quote Originally Posted by rfourt View Post
    ...This is a tricky dilemma i think. Because there are tons of stuff laying around the house already that can both hurt and kill some small children or pets...but...
    Yes, but you don't typically put those 'potentially hurtful things' *on the kids' nightstand / dresser*!!! This thing is purported to be 'safe-enough', where kids can, ie: roll over in the middle of the night, with fully dark-acclimated pupils, and get whacked in the eye with a beamlet (or a dozen..) from however-close range they sleep next to the thing! Yeah, I understand - it's not a howitzer - but, in-all, it's a terrible idea, imo..

    ...Even if the guy was selling it, ie: with a *non-optional* hanger (from ceiling, or wall, etc..) so, the thing could still 'paint the room with beamlets' (ie: 'Blisslights'..) - but, from a *distance*, at least, then, there'd be some 'safety-separation'.. What I mostly take-issue with, is that this thing *can* be picked-up / pointed directly into the eyeball - at-aperture - of some baby / toddler.. And, if you say 'oh, but the blink-reflex will save-him/her', well, would *you* stick this thing into your kids' eyeballs to 'find out'?? Some-kids' friend / sibling, sure-will, somewhere! Sorry, but he'll never-convince me that that's 'ok', at even 3-5mW, especially-since the 'plane of incidence' (at-aperture..) where however-much the diode is actually putting-out, meets the world .. if it was 5µW?? Maybe... I really want to get one of these things, and measure the output, to a µW-level, at-aperture.... Also, see how easy it is to take-apart / get access to however-much the diode is putting-out...

    Quote Originally Posted by rfourt View Post
    ...i have not heard of any incidents where someone has gotten eye damage from them yet...
    ..This assumes, a) People recognize / know that any damage has-occured (the eyes are *very good* at 'making-up for' small aberrations in vision - does-not mean they are not-there / damage has not-occured..), and therefore, report it, and b) Even when someone goes to 'the doctor', and says 'my eye is bothering me / I see a 'spot', etc.. that the Doc, does-indeed, do full retinal-scan, and - that any-damage, at all, gets reported, to ANSI or Rockwell, or even the local-news! AFAIK, there is no mechanism, from the FDA, tied-to an eye-Doc's license, etc requiring them to report all, even suspected / slight, reported-injuries from lasers.. (Yes, there is, if *they* cause laser-injury, ie: from an RK-procedure, etc, just-as there is a requirement, to-report, for us Light-show peeps, but - a requirement for submitting Patient-reported injurys?? Don't think-so....) Sure, they will document it - for their office / practice-records.. But, unless laser-damage is 'severe', I'd venture that far-more of it has-occured, than is ever realized / reported..

    Why such assertion? Because of what the eye's lens does with laser-light - which is already insanely-concentrated... Sure, lots of stuff can kill / injure you, and we 'pass death', every single day - heck, everyone that drives on the road, is, what - separated from head-on collision / probable severe-injury / possible death, by what? An imaginary 'boundary' via painted yellow-lines??!! But, we have seat-belts, driving-laws, driver-ed videos showing the horrible-results to the body in crashes, and, the 'general, all-around self-regulation' of people at least trying to drive-safely, for the most-part... So, where's such 'sanity' in designing a laser-product (..whether it can 'kill', or not..) for putting inches from your kids face / eyeballs / allowing it to be picked-up / stuck in an eyeball?? I just don't see it..

    Quote Originally Posted by rfourt View Post
    ...Theoretically this is not a safe product.
    ..I'd more agree with, 'it's not a *smart* product'.. ie: If it had some 'stand' / hanger, to keep it out of direct-contact with eyes, or, some 'sonar', etc, where, ie: if the aperture-side was brought closer than 'x-distance' to a surface (ie: face) it would shutter or attentuate, etc.. Or, even a 'level switch', where, as *soon as* the thing was picked-up / moved off-90˚, or at a certain velocity, etc, it attenuated / shut-off the laser, etc.. I'm sure such 'forward-thinking' could be designed into such a device...

    ..but that would mean putting 'responsability over profitability', and we all-know how well that goes with such 'get rich quick'-attitude people... Anyhoo, not 'yelling at you', rf.. Just some 'food for thought'...

    j
    Last edited by dsli_jon; 05-14-2013 at 09:58. Reason: fix dbl-txt
    ....and armed only with his trusty 21 Zorgawatt KTiOPO4...

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
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    Default

    My big problem is he says he uses a custom optic to ensure each beam is the same power

    Looks like a standard defraction grating to me

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=dhd0UfA3exg


  3. #23
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
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    Stockholm, sweden
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dsli_jon View Post
    Yes, but you don't typically put those 'potentially hurtful things' *on the kids' nightstand / dresser*!!! This thing is purported to be 'safe-enough', where kids can, ie: roll over in the middle of the night, with fully dark-acclimated pupils, and get whacked in the eye with a beamlet (or a dozen..) from however-close range they sleep next to the thing! Yeah, I understand - it's not a howitzer - but, in-all, it's a terrible idea, imo..

    ...Even if the guy was selling it, ie: with a *non-optional* hanger (from ceiling, or wall, etc..) so, the thing could still 'paint the room with beamlets' (ie: 'Blisslights'..) - but, from a *distance*, at least, then, there'd be some 'safety-separation'.. What I mostly take-issue with, is that this thing *can* be picked-up / pointed directly into the eyeball - at-aperture - of some baby / toddler.. And, if you say 'oh, but the blink-reflex will save-him/her', well, would *you* stick this thing into your kids' eyeballs to 'find out'?? Some-kids' friend / sibling, sure-will, somewhere! Sorry, but he'll never-convince me that that's 'ok', at even 3-5mW, especially-since the 'plane of incidence' (at-aperture..) where however-much the diode is actually putting-out, meets the world .. if it was 5µW?? Maybe... I really want to get one of these things, and measure the output, to a µW-level, at-aperture.... Also, see how easy it is to take-apart / get access to however-much the diode is putting-out...



    ..This assumes, a) People recognize / know that any damage has-occured (the eyes are *very good* at 'making-up for' small aberrations in vision - does-not mean they are not-there / damage has not-occured..), and therefore, report it, and b) Even when someone goes to 'the doctor', and says 'my eye is bothering me / I see a 'spot', etc.. that the Doc, does-indeed, do full retinal-scan, and - that any-damage, at all, gets reported, to ANSI or Rockwell, or even the local-news! AFAIK, there is no mechanism, from the FDA, tied-to an eye-Doc's license, etc requiring them to report all, even suspected / slight, reported-injuries from lasers.. (Yes, there is, if *they* cause laser-injury, ie: from an RK-procedure, etc, just-as there is a requirement, to-report, for us Light-show peeps, but - a requirement for submitting Patient-reported injurys?? Don't think-so....) Sure, they will document it - for their office / practice-records.. But, unless laser-damage is 'severe', I'd venture that far-more of it has-occured, than is ever realized / reported..

    Why such assertion? Because of what the eye's lens does with laser-light - which is already insanely-concentrated... Sure, lots of stuff can kill / injure you, and we 'pass death', every single day - heck, everyone that drives on the road, is, what - separated from head-on collision / probable severe-injury / possible death, by what? An imaginary 'boundary' via painted yellow-lines??!! But, we have seat-belts, driving-laws, driver-ed videos showing the horrible-results to the body in crashes, and, the 'general, all-around self-regulation' of people at least trying to drive-safely, for the most-part... So, where's such 'sanity' in designing a laser-product (..whether it can 'kill', or not..) for putting inches from your kids face / eyeballs / allowing it to be picked-up / stuck in an eyeball?? I just don't see it..



    ..I'd more agree with, 'it's not a *smart* product'.. ie: If it had some 'stand' / hanger, to keep it out of direct-contact with eyes, or, some 'sonar', etc, where, ie: if the aperture-side was brought closer than 'x-distance' to a surface (ie: face) it would shutter or attentuate, etc.. Or, even a 'level switch', where, as *soon as* the thing was picked-up / moved off-90˚, or at a certain velocity, etc, it attenuated / shut-off the laser, etc.. I'm sure such 'forward-thinking' could be designed into such a device...

    ..but that would mean putting 'responsability over profitability', and we all-know how well that goes with such 'get rich quick'-attitude people... Anyhoo, not 'yelling at you', rf.. Just some 'food for thought'...

    j
    This is why i love this forum.-

    Im convinced.
    as i said im not as knowledgable as many of you guys here, probably most but this describes it perfectly.

    As i said i like the product but with the points described by "jon" its clearly NOT a safe product atleast for people under the age of 18 and perhaps not even above either as we have seen before both on youtube and here in the forum. Hey i think i was even one of them lighting a cigarett on my first 1.5Watt 532 without safety glasses a few years agoo. Even though i knowed the danger, a video of it was not the brightes idea to share with people who thought that was awsome.

    Yes a feature for it to be hanging from the ceiling or a leveling-switch would make this thing atleast not so harmfull and ofcourse if the gratings are not focused at 2 meters etc.

    thankx m8.


    What surprise me is that he allready got so much money.

  4. #24
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    Feb 2008
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    UK and US
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    Hi All
    I don't get time to keep up as much as I would like but I would like to comment on this from a safety aspect.
    The YouTube link posted demonstrates a single XY diffraction grating http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=dhd0UfA3exg

    The video shows higher power densities in the central area of the projected image, that given, and the filming angle show that the diffraction grating is flat and parallel in the XY and not a custom parabola curved optic diffraction grating.

    The power densities are higher at the source point and then spread over the lineage of the diffraction grating.
    The diffraction looks very similar to 100 lines per inch that we used back in the early 90s and are readily available from various sources.

    That said there are inherent dangers in laser products for commercial use, if you consider the Casio projector that everyone harvests the raw 445 diodes from and readily make available, is it not conceivable for a company to produce a product that could take responsibility for eye damage that may occur from a product available from a big manufacture that may be saddled.

    Clive

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
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    72

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dream beamz View Post
    My big problem is he says he uses a custom optic to ensure each beam is the same power

    Looks like a standard defraction grating to me

    ]
    I concur, looks like hes feeding a bunch of bs
    Corporate Member ILDA

  6. #26
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    Jan 2013
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    Detroit, USA
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    I still can't believe how much money this project has raised ($398,330), people are idiots!!!

  7. #27
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    UK
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    Well, he doubled the project goal of $250k, reaching an eye-watering $502k at close...

    James
    Laser Safety
    https://www.lvroptical.com
    https://www.facebook.com/LaserSafety

    - Laser Show Safety Training & Audience Scanning Workshops.
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  8. #28
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    Jan 2007
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    Default

    He's probably boarding the plane to Tahiti as we speak.

  9. #29
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    Thumbs down

    Quote Originally Posted by JStewart View Post
    ...reaching an eye-watering $502k at close...
    ...Yeah, and did ya get a load of this horse-puckey???...

    Pledge $10,000 or more

    0 backers Limited (1 of 1 left)

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    Estimated delivery: Aug 2013


    ..just... no words... If it's *truly compliant*, how is anyone going to make a PYRO-effect look like 'minor leagues' - with Class IIIa laser-output??? Maybe if it's for a show in Richard's kreepy bedroom-closet??? And hey! - it's *only* $50K!!! Whatadeal!!! >_< At least no one fell for it.

    Well, we know there are at least 7,367 neanderthals that have just stopped reading, entirely... I just can't understand how, anyone *reading* such a crock of * 'offer' (..or, even the 'give me $8 grand, and I'll take you out to dinner', omG... would not run-screaming from this whole thing...

    ..Too-bad we won't be able to see all the 'WHERE'S MY GD BLUE-LAZOR-HURTBALL, RICHARD??!!!' posts, next month..

    Oi vey...
    j
    Last edited by dsli_jon; 06-03-2013 at 09:35.
    ....and armed only with his trusty 21 Zorgawatt KTiOPO4...

  10. #30
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    We are all in the wrong business!!

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