An advisory for Pluto II owners

[edison]

I think it still pays of to build your own system depending what you want to adchieve. Trying to to beat the price/quallity ratio of a chinese one these days is almost impossible. But if aiming for a high quallity system (assuming skills are there) that is compatible with something like RGB lasersystems i think it well worth the effort and also fun to do. Ignoring the timefactor and labourcosts that is.

[edison]

I think it still pays of to build your own system depending what you want to adchieve. Trying to to beat the price/quallity ratio of a chinese one these days is almost impossible. But if aiming for a high quallity system (assuming skills are there) that is compatible with something like RGB lasersystems i think it well worth the effort and also fun to do. Ignoring the timefactor and labourcosts that is. And to stay close to this thread topic , when good parts are being used the chances are small that something like a fuseholder fails and needs a replacement.

[Bradfo69]

I'll give a more thorough reply when I'm not doing this on my tiny iPhone screen but how much you pay for something doesn't mean it's suddenly immune to a quality issue. Edison says you have to pay more for something for it to be any good. That's horseshit because Ferrari's are in the repair shop a lot more than Honda's. I live less than a half mile from a Mercedes dealership. Guess what.... They have a repair department, a parts car for going to pick up parts, a courtesy shuttle and a loaner car program. I have Kvant stuff that needs to be fixed. But guess what... I can't
afford it after buying it in the first place. It was supposed to be the best when I got it.

I don't care who makes it... The chance exists that there might be a repair. .

[tribble]

A local Maker space / group may also be a resource for small repairs. I bet they would love a demo as well.

[Bradfo69]

@ Eric - PM sent

To elaborate further... now that I'm at a keyboard... I'm not saying you're (Edison) bashing the Pluto and I'll also agree that building your own may afford the best and most rewarding chance of having a good projector. Careful sourcing of parts and the best optics and so forth is great. I have neither the time, talent or inclination to do that. I own some Kvant projectors and I own several Pluto's and honestly, the divide in terms of quality is closing. Are they as polished as a Kvant? No but for the price I wouldn't expect them to be. And... I can get a couple of Pluto's for the same amount of money. And truthfully, the extra 5% increase in performance is something more reserved for the laser purist than the customer that's actually paying to dance around under the beams of your laser show. Whether that's a 16 year olds birthday bash or a half drunk bride and groom. (Purists are tightwads anyway!)

By the same token, I have a 1.2 watt Kvant 640 red module that costs as much as nearly two Pluto projectors that is currently struggling to do 880mW. So, just because I bit the bullet and paid more for a Kvant at this point, means nothing. It need to be repaired... same as an RGB Lasersystems could need to be repaired or an Arctos or Coherent tube or ALE or whatever. Just because you spent more doesn't mean you're immune to the chance something will need to be fixed some day.

[planters]

If your looking for prefab and don't care to learn how it works then the Chinese unit makes sense. Sure, it might be a lot less reliable because it is built up from parts that are at the raged edge of failure even when new. But, if it costs 5 x less then just buy three. When they are working you've got three, when they brake then you probably still have something.

I've always hated to be dependent on an expert to fix something I own and this drives me to understand the workings of these systems. This is what I now find interesting about projectors. They are really simple machines! There I said it. And, this is not me being arrogant. It's true. These are really on the order of assembling a desk top comp. The simplest project is the assembly of three modules, three mirrors, a scanner block and a couple power supplies. If everything is there it can be done in one full day of work. This is why I don't think too much about these pre-assembled units; the value added from the assembly is pretty small. The cost should go up as the quality and power of the modules and the scanners goes up, but the design remains unchanged.

It was interesting when we had our LEM in Boston a couple of months ago. The technician from Dynamic was in the process of assembling a couple of new projectors out of some CNI and Kvant modules. The process was matter of fact and seemed like an IT guy installing a new work station in an office. There was no struggle and no sense of a work of art in progress. Where the engineering begins to get interesting and the real work (the fun part) begins is the making and improving of the modules or the lasers or the scanners.

[VJ AIWAZ]

ill second that brad
high cost dont mean that its good product
i had 2 melles greens die on me one 2.5w and one 3w
they only had few hundred hrs on them the 2.5w had a temp problem it would start at full power then quickly die
the 3W was even worse i was at gig and the laser suddenly died turns out the bass in the club rattled the ktp loose so we sent that one to melles for repair and was told that it was too old to fix and offered to sell me a new one and charged me $500 bench fee for the news
and it was not that old maybe 4 or 5 years old at the time and it cost something like $15k
and i have CNI greens that have been going 8 years + no trouble

i actually still have both melles but they have been under saltwater for a few days (sandy)

[edison]

I bash most things that come from china, not only a pluto I have a neighbour that is selling chinashit and i have more repairs in the last year then ever before


Further more, i don,t suggest a higher priced system doesn,t require some repair after a while but my experiance is that when you buy a makita you pay tripple or even 5x the price of a chinese batterydrill but it last a lifetime if not more. You don,t see the carpenter repair minor things after its being delivered.When it needs a repair you can just send it back and they probably replace the whole machine. THAT is what you pay for.But he uses the machine everyday so he is willing to do the investment. When comparing what most people do here , the majority uses their projector maybe once or twice per month and so it doesn,t make sence to invest in a higher quallity system when it sits on the shelf for most of the time.


As for projectors if a customer has a projector that needs a repair they get a replacement from me for the time being since the show must go on at all times. A projector is simply a tool for a laserist and he shouldn,t do any repair and should focus on getting jobs in and be creative. I see allot of people posting their new purchase from china but as soon as it arrives there are some minor issues. 99% of every issue is blamed on damage by shipment. Yeah right

I must admit that china is moving up in therms of quallity but it will never reach the quallity of a european system. If you have the skills i still believe that building your own is a good way to save half the money and reach a quallity compared to what European companies can supply. But if you do mainly beamshows and want to go into laserbussiness, china systems from vendors like able and eightonlight are good to start with. The problem is that the real payed jobs (not the birthday party or your neigbours wedding) require 20 watt -60 watt that no one here can afford. So the low end market (where most pl members are in) will stay there unless you rob the bank or sell your kidney and invest in some high power systems to do bigger events. The big jobs are there only you have to invest first in the equipment and that is quite a bussiness risk. The majority can,t/ won,t take this risk and i don,t blame them since afterall its some kind of a hobby for most people here. Its a little bit the story with the chicken and the egg. You need to have cashflow to invest but to get cashflow you need to invest first to get cashflow........

Just my 2 cents.....

[tribble]

I find that in lasers, as with most of my hobbies, it is nice to have one unit "in the hanger" and another unit "in the air." As much as I enjoy the building / learning process and the physics exploration, there are times when I just want to sit down in front of the software and make pretty images. The chinese projector can make a nice bridge to fill the gap while you're pursuing your own designs and optical interests, if you don't have anything else already built. As it is, I'm finding I'm pursuing baseline optical designs to get something I can use and then optimize with all sorts of interesting optical arrangments while "enjoying" the laser preview window...

...now that I think about it... I probably need to order two baseplates, not one...

[planters]

...now that I think about it... I probably need to order two baseplates, not one...

Actually, that is not ridiculous in my experience. Just like the lenses I recommended in another thread, the accumulated hardware is rarely wasted. Sometime when you come up with a problem or an interesting idea it is a lot of fun to pop down to the lab, set it up and get an immediate answer or solve the problem right there.

I must admit that china is moving up in therms of quallity but it will never reach the quallity of a european system.

The scarey thing (for a European) is I disagree with this entirely. Over the next 20 years, even If you can stay out of a war with Russia or a complete incorporation by the Borg (aggressive Muslim expansion), the East is huge and growing much faster than Europe. Its a little like our wild west. You will find lots of cheap, deceptive garbage, but also some increasingly sophisticated technology at practical, affordable prices. I think it's a bit like Frank Hebert's "The Dosadi Experiment". Watch out!