Pesident Clinton

[swamidog]

No, I have not, yet. My own prejudice is that I am a technical geek. This is what I miss the most. I no longer build projectors (been there....), But, I love those discussions and how people innovate and improve. Not a lot of this seems to be going on. Beyond projectors (pun), there seems to be almost nothing.

i think there's some good innovation being done on the artistic side, even if there hasn't been much chatter about builds.

[dkumpula]

I do understand what you mean. And, to some extent I agree with you, but where I disagree is the actual, practical magnitude of the difference. Both major groups have a subset . . .

This was a well written response, in my opinion. I think it lacks a solution though. In the rehab analogy, where do they go if anyone can protest/block purchase of property?

In addition, I think you dodged the Pence issue. Being Pro-Christian / anti-homosexual by definition does not support representation of all Americans. Trump's appeal to the "forgotten class" of middle class white guys is more absurd as white men have always had an advantage over any minority or any woman for that matter. Attempting to return to 1950s racism is . . frightening.

[planters]

This was a well written response, in my opinion. I think it lacks a solution though. In the rehab analogy, where do they go if anyone can protest/block purchase of property?

They go where ALL parties who have an interest in the location have an opportunity to affect the decision. Those most impacted, should have the greatest weight. As I said, it is a balance and the government tends to be the 600 pound gorilla.

In addition, I think you dodged the Pence issue. Being Pro-Christian / anti-homosexual by definition does not support representation of all Americans.

No, I did not. Being black or being a woman should not have meant that such a president could not represent all the people. Being a Muslim should not mean that the mayor of London cannot represent all Londoners. Holding certain beliefs does not mean by definition that a person cannot be impartial, fair, reasonable or a good public servant. We could not have a court system if all the participants must be of like background and beliefs. We demand they preform their duties without prejudice. Voting against such a person for their beliefs is just as bigoted as their governing unfairly because of them.

Trump's appeal to the "forgotten class" of middle class white guys is more absurd as white men have always had an advantage over any minority or any woman for that matter.

I disagree with this strongly. To have an advantage because you and I are taller, stronger, better looking, smarter, harder working, more cooperative, healthier...etc, is unavoidable and may be related to your genetics or culture or family structure; this is simply who we are. But, once again, to have the government interfere to attempt to compensate based on sexuality, race, religion or place of origin...etc, in other words, based on groups, is wrong. And, the government has been doing this for decades. It needs to stop.

[Laserman532]

I'm wondering how long it will take him to get indicted and impeached for enriching himself and his family through the office of the presidency. I give him less than a year and a half.

dont worry, he is safe...the clintons have bilked the public to the tune of 110 million dollars for being "politicians".

[Laserman532]

If all Trump supporters are white supremacist, all Hillary supporters are pedophiles...Thank you wikileaks for exposing these scumbags... #pizzagate

[dkumpula]

They go where ALL parties who have an interest in the location have an opportunity to affect the decision. Those most impacted, should have the greatest weight. As I said, it is a balance and the government tends to be the 600 pound gorilla.

I suppose this sounds reasonable, but the definition of who is most impacted would be debated intensely. I also interpret your comments on the decision making process as not being a fully balanced view of the realities of what actually occurs today. The right has been programmed by Roger Ailles for decades that the government is bad and a bully. In this case you appear to solely blame the federal government for decisions made in part or in some cases solely by local, religious, charitable and private organizations.

No, I did not. Being black or being a woman should not have meant that such a president could not represent all the people. Being a Muslim should not mean that the mayor of London cannot represent . . . We demand they preform their duties without prejudice. Voting against such a person for their beliefs is just as bigoted as their governing unfairly because of them.

I think we are in full agreement until the last line. Voting against a white supremacist or a man who wishes to suppress the rights of the LGBT constituents does not make me the bigot. They are the ones who talk of removing / suppressing the rights of identifiable groups based on their beliefs and whine that their rights are being infringed. This is another of Ailles tactics that has caught on in recent years starting with the silly "war on Christmas" stuff. Stopping hatred and prejudice is . . good.

I disagree with this strongly. To have an advantage because you and I are taller, stronger, better looking, smarter, harder working, more cooperative, healthier...etc,

Ha! Well not taller in my case, but oherwise YES! . That said, I also recognize several specific instances in my past where being a white male (discounting my dead-sexiness and so forth) gave me an unfair advantage over others. I do not support the opposite, mind you, but I do think that everyone should be able to excel from a fairly level playing field.

[planters]

I suppose this sounds reasonable, but the definition of who is most impacted would be debated intensely.

Of course, it is not a given.

I also interpret your comments on the decision making process as not being a fully balanced view of the realities of what actually occurs today.

Rather, " I also interpret your comments that the decision making process is not balanced".

With this I agree.

The right has been programmed by Roger Ailles for decades that the government is bad and a bully

THEY may have, but I feel this way as well. Fox News is a cartoon for old people. The average age of the viewership is over sixty. The hosts were once described as women about to fall off bar stools and men in Brooks Brothers suites. Despite their prominence in the media, their viewership is very small compared to the voters who chose Trump.

In this case you appear to solely blame the federal government for decisions made in part or in some cases solely by local, religious, charitable and private organizations.

Not solely, but largely, yes. Catholic Charities is one of those religious organizations that is involved in locating these foreign groups. A large fraction of these expenses are paid for by the government. So much for the "separation of church and state". If the government were not involved that does not ensure balance, but while they dominate, balance is unattainable.

Voting against a white supremacist or a man who wishes to suppress the rights of the LGBT constituents does not make me the bigot

This is an awfully strong statement. Can you link to the proof that he is a white supremacist as opposed to the "bible thumper" he was described as above. What rights are you referring to with the LGBT community?

Stopping hatred and prejudice is . . good.

You can't stop hatred and prejudice with force, you can only suppress it. Respect can only be earned, it can't be demanded.

I do think that everyone should be able to excel from a fairly level playing field.

I agree here.

I also recognize several specific instances in my past where being a white male (discounting my dead-sexiness and so forth) gave me an unfair advantage over others.

This is a good point, and let's assume your experience is not anecdotal. So, let's get specific. You list those systematic advantages and I'll try to counter where I see that the opposite is true. Let the readers judge these lists.

[dkumpula]

THEY may have, but I feel this way as well. Fox News is a cartoon for old people. The average age of the viewership is over sixty. The hosts were once described as women about to fall off bar stools and men in Brooks Brothers suites. Despite their prominence in the media, their viewership is very small compared to the voters who chose Trump.

Entertaining and I don't disagree. Unfortunately, the rest of the Trump supporters are either reading conspiracy blogs or getting no "news" at all other than what Trump says himself. "Believe me, it's all true people!"

Not solely, but largely, yes. Catholic Charities is one of those religious organizations that is involved in locating these foreign groups. A large fraction of these expenses are paid for by the government. So much for the "separation of church and state". If the government were not involved that does not ensure balance, but while they dominate, balance is unattainable.

I'd have to do some research on this as I don't have any knowledge of the Catholic Churches role in such resettlements. That said, my personal experience with the charitable and community supporting aspects of the Catholic Church are exceptional. They provide services with nuns skillfully trained to address community and individual needs. They do not ask for payment or limit such services based on religion or any other factor. Can you imagine a typical Babtist church doing the same?

This is an awfully strong statement. Can you link to the proof that he is a white supremacist as opposed to the "bible thumper" he was described as above. What rights are you referring to with the LGBT community?

It is a strong statement and I'd provide videos with context but I can't at the moment as I am in Indonesia. And no, so far no one has attacked me unless you count the people asking politely if I need a cab at the rate of 5 times a minute, but the day is still young.

You can't stop hatred and prejudice with force, you can only suppress it.

I agree. Suppression to protect another's basic rights could be worse.

This is a good point, and let's assume your experience is not anecdotal. So, let's get specific. You list those systematic advantages and I'll try to counter where I see that the opposite is true. Let the readers judge these lists.

This is also a fair request. Quickly, at the tender age of 19, I did a couple doughnuts in a mostly empty parking lot with my ancient junky sports car that I just got running. Stupid behavior for a couple minutes and then my passenger's face turns to ash as he starts to mutter after I slide sideways out of the parking lot and down the street. I ask what's wrong and he tells me that I almost hit that car. "What car", I ask? "That police car, right there", he exclaims!

Needless to say the young white male traffic cops were not amused and the next 20 minutes of my life was unpleasant, but I drove away with nothing more than a ticket and a life-lesson. Now had we been two African-American college students instead of two white skinny college students, what do you think would have happened?

[planters]

Entertaining and I don't disagree. Unfortunately, the rest of the Trump supporters are either reading conspiracy blogs or getting no "news" at all other than what Trump says himself. "Believe me, it's all true people!"

Don't assume that the misleading or conspiratorial info is only on the side you disagree with.

I'd have to do some research on this as I don't have any knowledge of the Catholic Churches role in such resettlements.

I said Catholic Charities, not the Church. This is a specific example, not a general criticism of the Church. I gave this one because it is particularly egregious and an example of how it is the government, through indirect means, that inserts itself into the process.

It is a strong statement and I'd provide videos with context but I can't at the moment as I am in Indonesia

OK, I'll wait. But, until then, the assumption that he is so extreme in his views that it is unlikely he will be unable to govern fairly is unsupported.

This is also a fair request. Quickly, at the tender age of 19, I did a couple doughnuts in a mostly empty parking lot with my ancient junky sports car that I just got running. Stupid behavior for a couple minutes and then my passenger's face turns to ash as he starts to mutter after I slide sideways out of the parking lot and down the street. I ask what's wrong and he tells me that I almost hit that car. "What car", I ask? "That police car, right there", he exclaims!

Needless to say the young white male traffic cops were not amused and the next 20 minutes of my life was unpleasant, but I drove away with nothing more than a ticket and a life-lesson. Now had we been two African-American college students instead of two white skinny college students, what do you think would have happened?

You actually did that? How horrible...you can't expect us to take you seriously from now on. I'm flabbergasted! To answer your question, I'm not sure, but I suspect they would have been less lenient. I also think that if you had been rude, aggressive or trying to hide "something" when they stepped up, the response would have been much different. Now, in the cop's EXPERIENCE, what do you think are the odds that when they stopped a car after this adventure (still can't believe you did that)...anyway, what do you think are the ODDS that when they stopped a car after this adventure and found two black males (collage student status is not obvious) that they would have received the same reaction from the drivers?

The point is systematic, uneven treatment of CRIMINALS (that's you) based on race. Fair enough. What do you think is the cause of this uneven treatment?

My counter: What do you think are the odds of an Asian, a White and a Black being accepted into a University with the same academic profile/ SAT score?

[dkumpula]

Hehee. Thug life, I know.

Regarding your question regarding the behavior of the alternate raced drivers, I don't think that anyone would get angry for being stopped after making such a dumb move. It's stopping without cause (or perceived cause in some cases) that results in a degree of "attitude". I do the same when stopped by traffic police in third world countries for no cause other than looking for a bribe.

In any case this difference in treatment according to a study I saw is caused in part by unconscious bias. I don't think that's all though. President Obama gave a great speech where he described how hard it is to be a police officer these days. Dealing with addicts, the mentally ill, and their "day job" stopping criminals is too much to ask of them. We need social services to lift this burden. The government should be the source of this support, in my opinion.

Regarding your final counter question, if I understood you correctly, such assumptions are textbook racist. My best two buddies in high school was a smart Haitian guy and a smart Jewish guy. (I was the funny one.). Our transcripts and SAT scores were nearly identical. We all enterered college as engineering students. I ended up with the accounting degree, my Jewish friend got a graphics art degree and my Haitian friend was the only one who made it out as an engineer. Assumptions made due to someone's ethnicity is, by definition, racist.

You know, as horrified as I am at the likelihood that equal rights for many Americans will suffer at least in the short to mid term, there is something much more important that we haven't been discussing: climate change. The world meteorological society concluded on the same day that the Donald was elected 'leader of the free world'. It wasn't even reported on in the US, but the current state of the planet based on the results presented by this panel of experts was dire to say the least. This wasn't theory, this was real measurements by unaffiliated experts world-wide, so there is no sensible dispute regarding their results. Just today I read of thousand mile long shallow water coral reef die-off just in the past year at the Great Barrier Reef. Donald thinks climate change is a Chinese hoax and last week said he read that wind turbines can negatively affect human health . . and that they are an eye-sore. Furthermore he plans to lift restrictions on burning coal and fossil fuels. The Donald may be able to con nearly half of the American voters, but Mother Nature is one unforgiving chick who can't be intimidated or grabbed by the . . well, you know.