New laser shows from International Laser Productions

[dsli_jon]

Hey Gary -

But, you did not force me to go look at it nor have you been impolite about any of this so I really don't have a problem with you or your other work.

I'm not here to 'attack' you, but remember, this was how TG 'invited' everyone into watching it the first time:

"Hi

We just posted some recently made shows... @ http://www.internatlaser.com/max_laser_shows/index.html

Disco Inferno Kind of a summary of the times we live in
Winter Wonderland..."
...blah, blah, blah...

He did NOT state, up-front, what it REALLY was, a grossly disrespectful, callous piece of his own mental-masturbation - which he fully has a RIGHT to do - but the first gripe was for posting this link without appropriate warning that this was actually a very graphic and potentially-offensive 'political statement' ...

How would you feel if when you clicked-on his 'Winter Wonderland' show, it was max animations of Indonesian-government-officials engaging in pederasty outside in the snow? Really, though, it was just a 'satirical political statement' about the sex-trade in Bali, et al., but good thing you weren't showing a new Client that 'new show' or had your kids around you, right??!!!

So, yeah, no one was FORCED, but the guy is just plain shady...even if it was not intentional (ie: he KNOWINGLY left its' description vague to get more clicks) how arrogant to assume everyone would be so-subscribed to his views that they should not at LEAST be told 'this show contains graphic imagery of the 9-11 events / deaths' ...and then, he MOCKS everyone who did not bow down to him for it with his 'mushrooms living in a box / better off in the dark' clip... So I am not seeing how he was 'polite' about peoples' reaction from any angle...

Anyways I hav't seen that animation. Can someone kindly give me a link. Thanx.

Hey Doc - ask him to send it to you - I am sure he will be quite proud to show you - and BTW, IMO, I don't see it as 'supporting' his views to watch it, if you've never seen it - you have to have some way to form your opinions - really, if he is so certain of the 'truth' of its' contents / message, and is so proud of his right to express it, why take it down in the first place??? Why not make it the 'ILP - The art of bending light and truth' Homepage??!!!

peace...
j

[carmangary]

It was a cartoon with images made of colored lines. I don't find anything about it graphic. Of course, I have seen stuff like Faces of Death so my standards may be higher than yours. Everyone knowss jets flew into the towers and everyone knows they collapsed. And most people know of the conspiracy theories. I can't count how many times I have seen the actual footage on TV, including the people falling from buildings. So, the cartoon laser show was nothing new. It was just presented with a different opinion on what happened. Perhaps the real issue is that it was a slap in our face, showing what some other countries think of America. Maybe instead of being offended so much you should take it as a wake up call as to what kind of mess we are all in.

Anyway, I refuse to let a 70s song and a laser cartoon get me bent out of shape. That's all I have to say.

[dsli_jon]

Hey again, Gary -

I don't find anything about it graphic. Of course, I have seen stuff like Faces of Death so my standards may be higher than yours....Perhaps the real issue is that it was a slap in our face, showing what some other countries think of America. Maybe instead of being offended so much you should take it as a wake up call as to what kind of mess we are all in.

Anyway, I refuse to let a 70s song and a laser cartoon get me bent out of shape. That's all I have to say.

Only thing I ask to correct, here, is you should not be careful not to assume you really know / understand any of my personal views related to 9-11 / how America is/was being run, etc, etc - I don't express them here, cause it's supposed-to-be a laser-forum - we're not at a Bar with some 'tall-ones'... (...sadly...) ...and - just in case you missed it - I am a natural-born US Citizen, living in El Salvador, married to a Salvadorian, (and yeah - she's HOT!!! ) since 2005 (I travel here for shows / family / vacation, etc) and have visited many countries in my travels / service-calls / shows, so I actually do have a pretty balanced, 'real-world-view' of how several 'other countries view America', so, sorry, bud - ya need to hit the 'tuning button' on your assumptions of my personal views of things / motives, here...

If you re-read my posts, I am not rallying against his VIEWS / RIGHT to express them, but I take issue with him because of his extremely arrogant attitude and mis-treatment / shafting of LMR (a Gentleman and a very helpful contributor to the laser show industry) and tasteless-mocking of those families'-losses, and then insulting all laserists who did not subscribe to his views...

Like others have, perhaps, 'less-passionately' expressed, I don't think as many would have-had issues with him / that show IF he had simply TOLD people UP FRONT what it was ABOUT (ie 'this show contains imagery of the 9-11 events / deaths'... note I deleted 'graphic' for you ) - yes, some would STILL call him a 'terrorist' for his show, but at least the others would have not felt 'tricked' into seeing his views / disturbing animations without warning... several very-well-respected members of the global laser-community - NOT American - took issue with him on the ILDA and Laserist-lists, solely on that point...

Oh, and LOL about 'Faces of Death' - I was an EMT for a few years, before I got too busy with work / family, etc - if you ever wanna puke, I can send ya a link to a site they trained us with, of actual crash photos that will - I guarantee you - leave you never the same - even IF you are/were already a firefighter / EMT, etc - makes Faces of Death seem like Sesame Street...even seeing that-level of stuff, I still feel his portrayal of the 'jumpers' was wrong. Again, it's always best not to judge what others 'standards' are....

Anyhoo, maybe next time we are in TX for a gig, we can hit a pub and have those 'tall ones' we're missing, here, eh?

peace...
j

[drlava]

Someone can think what they like, fine but that does not make them correct. They can be told stories about another nation by many people that they live around, and make money by retelling these stories in a snide and dramatic way, but that does not mean they are true, not even a little bit. It WAS insulting and a slap in the face, but there will always be peolpe out there like him, who are wrong because they want to beleive something bad about someone else. It unites them with those arond them. It's not a wake up call, just an illumination of one whom to avoid.

[carmangary]

Anyhoo, maybe next time we are in TX for a gig, we can hit a pub and have those 'tall ones' we're missing, here, eh?

peace...
j

I'm up for that.

[buffo]

Who said anything about 1st amendment? I'm just talking about the calls for banning the guy and for deleting all of his shows from harddrives. That is most definitely book burning.

I didn't really expect you to take it literally. Come on now.

If you didn't expect me to take it literally, then why did you say "That is most definitely book burning" when I first questioned your use of the term? Your reply above sounds pretty literal to me.

Bottom line: you weren't as offended by the juxtaposition of a cheezy disco anthem from the 70's with the images of the WTC collapse as other people were. Evidently you don't think it was worth getting upset about. That doesn't mean that everyone else agrees with your assessment of the show, however.

I would like to point out that you did state that you found the show "distasteful", and earlier in this thread you had this to say:

ISP, why don't you go make some cartoons of Osama bin Laden and Allah having sex and then release those to the muslim countries and see how well that goes for you? You could set it all to the tune of Ministry's "Tonight We Murder".

So it appears that you were more upset about it earlier, and have since changed your mind. That is, of course, your prerogative.

Either way, the fact remains that DZ (or anyone else) is equally free to delete the ILP shows if he chooses. Likewise, I am free to express my desire to *not* be associated with ILP, because I feel that such an association reflects poorly on me.

And for the record, I'm also an EMT, and have seen several fatal injuries. My objection to the show is not because of some aversion to the macabre. Rather, it's the complete lack of respect demonstrated by the cheering figures (as women are falling to their deaths), and the shear outrageousness of the radio-controlled plane crashing into the tower - along with the missle (not a plane) hitting the pentagon.

If Terrence wanted to debate US foreign policy, or make a statement about how the US's reputation around the world has suffered in recent years, there are plenty of other ways he could have done this without insulting the deaths of thousands of innocent civilians who perished on 9/11.

Adam

[carmangary]

The show is offensive but by no means does it justify the mob mentality that has been demonstrated. I thought we were all big boys here.

[keeperx]

My 2 cents....

I could really care less what one persons opinion is...

I could really care less if there is some laser show that offends me (and it does so i guess i care a little)

But in the end the real question is, is it acceptable behavior for an ILDA member to engage in?

the behavior was reviewed by the ILDA and a decision was made.

HOWEVER, if i made a show that was of Nazis killing those of Jewish decent, or of the suffering of Hiroshima after the bomb, and played it against some upbeat music to give the impression that "I" (the author/projectionist/client/publisher) thought it was funny or deserved, (run on sentence) i would be ready to take the heat.

So in the end, i think that we are responsible for our actions. And if overall third party perspective of a community is that those actions are unacceptable, then those actions are unacceptable within the community that we have chosen and we should either change our actions or find a new community...

[dsli_jon]

Gary -

The show is offensive but by no means does it justify the mob mentality that has been demonstrated. I thought we were all big boys here.

????? Mob mentality?????

Is this really Terry? Terry, are you hijacking Gary's PC and are really the one behind this otherwise-baffling insult???

...Umm, so what was this:

ISP, why don't you go make some cartoons of Osama bin Laden and Allah having sex and then release those to the muslim countries and see how well that goes for you? You could set it all to the tune of Ministry's "Tonight We Murder".

FYI, there are some on the ILDA / Laserist lists that replied to Terrys' slight-of-hand that BELIEVE his views of 9-11 (inside jobs, etc) and many others who are 'neutral' toward the culpability / NOT Americans, and 'BOTH CAMPS' were STILL irritated by his lack of sense in posting that link, the way he did, even-if the content did not bother them. Did everybody like that there - and here - just 'jump on the bandwagon' because they are not really thinking for themselves (mob mentality) before they typed??? Maybe that's what YOU did, but others (ie ME) reacted independently to reply publicly to Terry's PUBLIC affronts to everyone on the lists and his website (now removed) and all laserists that did not bow down to him for his 'show'...

Yeah, we're all big boys, here, and this big boy says scratch the beers, if you wanna let TG mind-hump you, hey that's your right, you have fun, just don't post pictures of the baby here....

j

[carmangary]

Yeah, we're all big boys, here, and this big boy says scratch the beers, if you wanna let TG mind-hump you, hey that's your right, you have fun, just don't post pictures of the baby here....

That's fine with me, too. If you can't handle a difference of opinion then so be it.