Spaghetti - Spaghetti - Spaghetti

[keeperx]

GEEZ guys.. call 1.800.WAAAAAAA
this is a ridiculous argument..

Buffo - Stop multiquoting everything everyone says.. There is no need for you to respond to every part of every post.. sometimes that just makes things worse, or at least drags things out to the N-th degree

WhightLight - you have done nothing from the begining worth of anyones respect in this thread yet you got completely offended when someone did not give you respect... thats a personal problem..

Gary - you are so easily upset over others opinions of you on this forum.. and you are playing into their hands and making yourself look bad even if you have noble intentions.


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the above was posted pre Drlava so take it as such..


DrLava makes great points and as far as im concerned i will use spaghetti as long as its supported.. considering that garry and i have talked a few times in the past i have a feeling he would support me if he could even if he dropped global support for it..

[drlava]

now that's a keeper!

[buffo]

I am the jerk because I expected a little bit of people's time that use it.

I suppose this is where we agree to dissagree. If you expect something in return for a free gift, then it's not a free gift. Pure and simple.

I think your life as a software developer has biased you to always consider things in terms of a contract negotiation. You mention that you prefer to spend time with your family because they show appreciation for it. What if they didn't show appreciation? Would you still spend time with them?

People *have* been showing their appreciation for Spaghetti. Sure, not many have been making shows with it, but that doesn't mean they don't appreciate it. You are upset because they aren't "paying you back" by making shows. Well, it's free software Gary. People will do whatever they want with it. Can't you live with that?

if I am wrong and people actually do expect me to continue to work on Spaghetti just because it is a swell thing to do then screw you all.

What sort of attitude is this? You only do something if you expect something in return? Where would PL be if everyone thought that way? "Screw us all" Is that how you really feel? Because I can tell you that lots of people here on PL do things just for the good it brings others. Is that such a foreign concept to you?

Buffo, there are a lot of younger people at LPF that may complain if something that was free is taken away. Quoting them says less about carmangary and more about the state of too many people today

You have a point there, Andrew. Honestly the only reason I mentioned LPF is because it is a separate forum where I have exactly ZERO influence, yet it is also a place where Gary managed to upset some people. It was meant to illustrate that it's not "everyone else", or even "just buffo" that is bringing the negativity to Gary, but rather the other way around. Perhaps not the best example, true.

And I make this promise to you now: If you continue your work with Spaghetti, I *will* convert my shows to run on Spaghetti - despite our differences - and I will also offer any assistance I can to make it better.

sounds like one more good reason to keep working on it, others probably feel the same way...

I stand by my statement. I will agree to assist in the development of shows if the software development continues. That is, assuming that Gary is willing to work with someone that he considers to be, if not the source of all his problems, at least "an asshole".

Adam

[carmangary]

Spaghetti was(is?) a great program for shows - intuitive interface, good features, wide compatibility. It seemed like you were doing a lot of things right and you do have the perogative to not support people at your discretion. Give us a clear idea of your goal for spaghetti and more people can feel comfortable with it. One thing Buffo's right about in this thread is that leaving and pulling it gives the feeling of instability for the future of the software that will make users shy away.

At any rate, i wish you success with your future plans for spaghetti. Choice is good!

Buffo, there are a lot of younger people at LPF that may complain if something that was free is taken away. Quoting them says less about carmangary and more about the state of too many people today - thinking they deserve handouts!


sounds like one more good reason to keep working on it, others probably feel the same way...

In response to DrLava, I have heard people say that they will write shows or whatever if I give it to them or continue to work on it. In fact, I stopped working on it awhile in the past and people said the same thing. It didn't happen. Here's the dealio and I'll leave it at that. 1.8.0.0_B10 is out there and works pretty well. I fixed the bug that White-Light reported but have not given that version to anyone. I'll put that fixed version on my webpage for awhile for people to download, use, try out, or whatever. Then the ball will be in your hands. If I see any reason to continue working on it, I will. If not, then it isn't my fault anymore.

People need to stop flipping out. I didn't take Spaghetti away from you. I just stopped working on it and distributing it. I'm sure there are people with copies of the current and old versions who can share it if they want to.

I will spell it out once more. The entire purpose of Spaghetti, as said so from the very start and in between is for people to start creating free shows and to share them so that we don't have to pay cut throat prices for laser shows and laser show software. I'm was doing my part by providing software for free. All I expected was for someone, anyone, to contribute a little on the other end. I encouraged that by putting a webpage on my website for people to contribute shows. At one point I even thought of offering a $100 prize for a show competition. There is only so much I can do before it becomes a waste of my time, though.

In a way, Spaghetti was never free. There is no such thing as a free lunch. People should know that. I don't think I was being unreasonable in my request, though.

That said, I would like to know what people expect/expected of me? Harper Ingenuities is not a company. It is a ficticious name I used as a teenager to get free samples and literature from magazines. So, if someone thought I was a real company providing a real product then they were mistaken.

Over and out.

[Anthony]

wat ever hapened to " doing things because they are fun doing" and because YOU want do it.

Gary don't expect anything from others .. just make you software becaus you want to make nice software... because its forfilling..(makes you feel good) accomplisment.

I you don't enjoy making it anymore.... just say it.. and nobody can ever complain about it.
Nobody can make me do things i don't want to.. or like to..... not in a hobby.
Just don't point the finger to your users... put the "problem" and frustrations in other peoples laps.

SIMPLE.

[buffo]

There is no such thing as a free lunch. People should know that.

In the hobbyist community, and especially among friends, there *is* such a thing as a free lunch. LaserBoy is free. Poplescan is free. Dchammond's LaserWave abstract generator is free. There are other examples, but you get the point.

Also, hardware can be free too. Keeperx got a free camera. I got a free argon tube. Daedal got a free set of scanners. Mixed Gas got a free geometric correction box. These are just a couple examples off the top of my head - others can surely elaborate.

It's only in your closed-minded world where people don't do things just for the good of the community. This, I think, is why you've been so hostile to Bill. You just can't accept the idea that he might do something to help someone - even if they have no intention of buying Bill's product.

Contrary to your world view, there are good people out there that will help you out with no strings attached. Is that really such a strange concept for you?

I would like to know what people expect/expected of me?

I can think of a few things I'd like...

1) Stop attacking people.
2) Start participating in the community again.
3) Enjoy the fact that people are using your software and having fun with it.
4) Continue to develop Spaghetti as you have time or feel like it.
5) Keep your temper in check when you talk about Bill, or about Pangolin users.
6) Loose the sarcasm.
7) Attend a Laser Enthusiast's Meeting and see what people are really using your software for.

So please... Pick one. Or more than one, if you're feeling generous.

Adam

[carmangary]

Well, I don't consider working on Spaghetti fun. It requires a lot of thought and sitting at the computer. Laser shows are fun. I made Spaghetti so people could make them and we'd all have fun. No one made any. So no fun. So no Spaghetti. I don't see why people don't understand that logic. Spaghetti was never a free gift and never will be. Maybe it is best if I just start charging for it so people that want it can get it and I don't expect anything else in return other than say, $75 a copy. Would that make you happy and make you not feel like you are whoring yourselves out for a copy? Or maybe 10 or so of you could get together and make a few good group shows so everyone could enjoy it for free? The choice is yours.

[White-Light]

WhightLight - you have done nothing from the begining worth of anyones respect in this thread yet you got completely offended when someone did not give you respect... thats a personal problem..

Non of this is about respect for me. Its about a long standing frustration with Gary's treatment of others on here shared by many and the resulting out flowing of that when he chose to use me as a medium to lash out as those others.

You're a personal friend of his so I'd expect you to take his view. Fine we agree to disagree on the motivation behind this.

Gary - you are so easily upset over others opinions of you on this forum.. and you are playing into their hands and making yourself look bad even if you have noble intentions.

I think Gary made himself look bad way before today with his treatment of Bill.

In response to DrLava, I have heard people say that they will write shows or whatever if I give it to them or continue to work on it. In fact, I stopped working on it awhile in the past and people said the same thing. It didn't happen. Here's the dealio and I'll leave it at that. 1.8.0.0_B10 is out there and works pretty well. I fixed the bug that White-Light reported but have not given that version to anyone. I'll put that fixed version on my webpage for awhile for people to download, use, try out, or whatever. Then the ball will be in your hands. If I see any reason to continue working on it, I will. If not, then it isn't my fault anymore.

People need to stop flipping out. I didn't take Spaghetti away from you. I just stopped working on it and distributing it. I'm sure there are people with copies of the current and old versions who can share it if they want to.

I will spell it out once more. The entire purpose of Spaghetti, as said so from the very start and in between is for people to start creating free shows and to share them so that we don't have to pay cut throat prices for laser shows and laser show software. I'm was doing my part by providing software for free. All I expected was for someone, anyone, to contribute a little on the other end. I encouraged that by putting a webpage on my website for people to contribute shows. At one point I even thought of offering a $100 prize for a show competition. There is only so much I can do before it becomes a waste of my time, though.

In a way, Spaghetti was never free. There is no such thing as a free lunch. People should know that. I don't think I was being unreasonable in my request, though.

That said, I would like to know what people expect/expected of me? Harper Ingenuities is not a company. It is a ficticious name I used as a teenager to get free samples and literature from magazines. So, if someone thought I was a real company providing a real product then they were mistaken.

Over and out.

At last a mature and rational response. I am genuinely glad you have re-evaluated your position regarding your software availability.

Regarding shows, its small steps.

Did you ever consider that people might use it as a viewer before going onto do bigger and greater things with it? The reason I haven't been using it for show purposes is because I haven't got a DAC or an ILDA cable. I'm sure I'm not alone in being one step away from actually using its full potential. Not everyone can afford to buy everything needed to go straight into show mode from the off. Sometimes there are other real world priorities that take precedence. You shouldn't be so offended that that people don't use its full capabilities from the off. I wonder how many people on here (or anywhere to that matter) use Microsoft Excel to its full extent. I'd wager real money on not many!

[White-Light]

Well, I don't consider working on Spaghetti fun. It requires a lot of thought and sitting at the computer.

No-one doubts your commitment or talent Gary. The only problem anyone has had with you has been your attitude to Bill and your sometimes easily bruised ego. I'm sure if you could control those two things ie. accept Pangolin for what it is, a commercial software that does contain commercially protected ideas that is worshipped by some, (albeit not you), but which nevertheless has its place and accept feedback as feedback not personal attack then you'd get along fine with most people, myself included.

[carmangary]

White-Light I will respond directly to you. You reported some issues and I worked hard to fix them. Then when you got the next version you said it was even worse than before and that you would have to abandon it. To me, that said you didn't think my software was worth messing with anymore. And, I think that is the message you were attempting to convey, either because you meant it or as a snide way of motivating to work on your issue faster. You can say you didn't mean it that way but I just don't believe it. Anyway, don't bite the hand that feeds you. I put my dog to sleep when he bit my daughter. That's the kind of person I am.