Brexit

[planters]

They did not LEFT the EU.
They said they don't want to be member in the future.
But process of separation will take years and will create more victims than winners. On both sides.
It is NOT like cancelling membership of the local tennis club!

The process of separation is scheduled to take two years and Cameron has resigned. France, Italy and the Netherlands are all calling for EU membership referendums. The vote to leave was based on economic issues, but turned significantly on the horrible EU policy on immigration. Merkel can take a lot of credit for messing that up ...real big. Thanks Angela! Oh, and less directly, thanks Barack!


PJ,

Your earlier posts indicated that you sensed that you might need to leave the Netherlands for some of the same reasons that the UK has left the EU. Now it's such a horror?

Bad times await... people voted with their emotions. Waiting for scotland to leave the UK in response.

But, if they had voted to stay then they would have voted with their heads? You sound a little like the New York Times and Merkel...condescending.

says she no longer wants to live, work, pay taxes and raise our child in a country that doesn't want outsiders.

Wow, so it's uncontrolled immigration or she want's to stay in Denmark? Am I reading that right?

I think it is not such a bad thing the UK leaves the EU. If they'd stayed, they would have vetoed every EU decision that would not be beneficial for the UK.

The point of leaving was in part this very thing. EVERY TIME the UK voted against a EU policy, they lost!

"Ireland is rummored to leave"
No way!.....where did you hear that masterpj???

No, Scotland voted heavily in favor of Remain and the leadership there has been in talks with London's mayor Khan about this (nice!).

People say they will move to Canada if Trump is elected. I call bullshit on that.

Agreed. I say let them go, they won't be missed. Most have probably not actually looked into this. It is extremely expensive.

[mixedgas]

My Dear European Friends, Don't Panic, slow down, and remember to try to influence the process as it goes on around you.
!
No one sent the Article 50 notice yet. That has to be approved by UK Parliament, and initiated in the Commons, then sent by the PM as I understand it...
!
So UK has not even officially notified Bruxelles to start the process...
!
Remember the whole mess of this started with EU "Central Government" being un-accountable to the citizens of Europe, yet being able to trump local and national legislatures...
!
My bet is Parliament stalls the notice for a long while.. Cameron started the stalling by resigning.... Just like our Republicans are stalling the appointment of a Supreme Court justice until we no longer have a lame duck president. (Which might or might not be a good thing)
!
This is not an overnight declaration of war, borders are not closing today and trade goes on reasonably normally.. The people who do not understand that there will be a process are panicking, and the people who want to take advantage of that ignorance are doing so... Normal human reaction.. Others will try to sever relations quickly to take advantage of the confusion, again, normal human reaction. But until the official notice is served, everything is just panic and opportunistic manipulation.
!
This vote does not cancel corporate contracts and business friendships, trade will continue today and tomorrow, and tomorrow and tomorrow... (Apologies to W. Shakesphere)
)
Those of you who make electronics will remember the initial fun of "CE" and ROHS Solder... The later being ill advised considering the tremendous expense of trying to eliminate 60/40 solder, just to replace it with expensive, less reliable, similar heavy metals. Silver turns out not to be the friend of small organisms in the environment, and neither does tin. . Remember that the EU Central Government played that to the hilt to try to force manufacturing of consumer electronics to return to Europe.
!
Long live the UK and her wonderful people.... The UK folks I communicate with wish to retain their Nation's Sovereignty, and feel that Brussels has had too much influence on their lives..
!
!

Steve

[Laserhobbit]

Many people are working on getting an passport for ireland and moving.. don't blame em.

Where do you get this from? Master PJ don't let the facts cloud your ability to make things up

Oh and I heard the Dutch also wanted a referendum ???

[Diachi]

I think the government is worse for poor people, but blaming the immigrants is a convenient way of securing the poor people's votes, and its worked.

Always been the case - now it's immigrants from the Middle East/North Africa - in past times it was the Irish, Italians, Pakistanis. Always need someone for the poor people to blame.

But the poor white man’s used in the hands of them all like a tool
He’s taught in his school
From the start by the rule
That the laws are with him
To protect his white skin
To keep up his hate
So he never thinks straight
’Bout the shape that he’s in
But it ain’t him to blame
He’s only a pawn in their game

Where do you get this from? Master PJ don't let the facts cloud your ability to make things up

Oh and I heard the Dutch also wanted a referendum ???

I did see quite a lot of folk on twitter saying they were going to up and move to Ireland - but that's much the same as Americans saying they'll move to Canada if Trump wins - all talk really.

As for Scotland - part of the argument the "better together" camp had was that we'd secure our place in the EU by staying in the UK. Clearly that didn't happen. Looks like Indyref 2 will go ahead.

The party’s manifesto says the Scottish Parliament should have the right to hold another referendum if there is “clear and sustained evidence” of majority support for independence, or if there is a “significant and material” change in circumstances, such as Scotland being taken out of the EU against its will.

[masterpj]

The immigrants didn't have to be there to ruin the economy of the UK.
The citizens did it themselves by voting out. Trump is supporting the UKs decision because it's one competitor less.

Also this and some other things are taking quite a quick turn:
https://twitter.com/GMB/status/746218028195426305

Regarding Dutch: Yeah some retarded people are shouting but it's not going to happen with the current failjure of the outcome in the UK. I very much doubt it will happen... more likely a leave of Scotland and Ireland if any.
If a referrendum somehow happens I very much doubt it would pass.

Regarding my leave: the EU hasn't been doing so well but the move of the UK accelerated that destruction of their own economy even more..
Just feel more pleasant being in the US. has nothing to do with the refferendum of the UK per se.

Scotland is most certainly leaving.. last time the vote was a close call and Scotland wanted to stay with the EU.. it's a no brainer.

[neskusen]

The immigrants didn't have to be there to ruin the economy of the UK.

Mass immigration is always trouble for the economy, unless you already have more jobs and not enough people to work, which isn't the case here. That's just a basic fact. The government has to make sure people can get jobs and support themselves, and help those who can't. That requires resources. When you add the amount of people, you have to add the resources as well. When you can't, you have to cut the pie into smaller pieces and everyone gets less. People who didn't have to share as much before are less happy, or even worse, still hungry now.
We could argue whether this or that is worse, but mass immigration always has a negative impact for citizens of any country, that's why people can't just get to any country they wish and start working there right away.

Trump is supporting the UKs decision because it's one competitor less.

Of course, Trump can't possibly have any good intentions about anything as we all know. However, any person who respects democracy should support the decision of the people of UK. A referendum is the best example of a direct democratic process, of course we should support the will of the people even if we don't agree with it otherwise we don't support democracy.

This is not an overnight declaration of war, borders are not closing today and trade goes on reasonably normally.. The people who do not understand that there will be a process are panicking, and the people who want to take advantage of that ignorance are doing so... Normal human reaction.. Others will try to sever relations quickly to take advantage of the confusion, again, normal human reaction. But until the official notice is served, everything is just panic and opportunistic manipulation.
!
This vote does not cancel corporate contracts and business friendships, trade will continue today and tomorrow, and tomorrow and tomorrow... (Apologies to W. Shakesphere)

Amen.

[planters]

Trump is supporting the UKs decision because it's one competitor less.

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/press-releases/donald-j.-trump-statement-regarding-british-referendum-on-e.u.-membership

Of course, Trump can't possibly have any good intentions about anything as we all know.

Half of the US and over half of the UK must be emotionally driven, low information racists or at least xenophobic. Uncontrolled immigration has been a real boon for European culture. Have you walked around London recently? Did the EU have any credible plan to deal with the flood of immigrants other than to threaten Orban with sanctions if the PAIN was not distributed equally? What was the end game? War? Sharia law across Europe? Economic collapse and immigrant self deportation?

PJ, the EU is a failed experiment. Bureaucrats have used it to enrich themselves and their friends and it's expansion into ever more of the member nations affairs has reduced national sovereignty. The transition away from the EU will entail economic fluctuations, but Brussels didn't manufacture, grow or invent anything (other than how to reward themselves). The economic potential of Europe hasn't changed.

[White-Light]

Bad times await... people voted with their emotions. Waiting for scotland to leave the UK in response.

If Scotland wants to go, they can. Personally I'd rather they stayed but it really makes no difference to the UK> The amount of trade England > Scotland is very little and Scotland has far more to lose as it exports huge amounts of Whiskey and other goods to then UK plus many UK Government institutions were moved to Scotland to provide jobs eg the National Insurance Offices. Which in turn means if Scotland left, these jobs would no doubt have to move back into the UK as you couldn't have a foreign country administering UK government pensions etc.

The there's the fact that many UK banks and institutions have their head quarters in Scotland and said at the last referendum they'd close them and move their jobs south if Scotland left.

Nobody wins here... I don't get why people are even thinking of supporting the likes of Nigal Farage and UKIP.
The worst just became a reality.. pack your bags while you still can (and potentially worry about your money on the banks).

Because the UK is sick of immigration. It's not racist. It's about how the rich have been using it to drive down wages and job stability, how it's affecting the NHS, Schools and other public services. Don't forget in the UK these are all FREE services. They're taxpayer funded and there is such huge pressures from the number of people using them, that there isn't enough money to adequately fund them.

The Pound is at an al time low and dropping... Ireland is rummored to leave and Scotland (Who voted for a stay) will now bring up the leave again and this time will actually leave... Scotland pays a lot to the rest of the UK... It will not be an united kingdom anymore but just a kingdom. The move to leave is political suicide and I can't believe my eyes people even remotely listened to UKIP.

Any instability is likely to be short term. Ireland is unlikely to leave as there is already in place an agreement for free trade and open borders that pre-dates the EU agreement and which the Irish Government is reported as wanting to revert to. Not sure where you get the idea that Scotland pays a lot into the UK. According to this, Scotland has twice the debt based on GDP, and receives more from the UK than it pays back:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/poli...ze-of-UKs.html

I think the government is worse for poor people, but blaming the immigrants is a convenient way of securing the poor people's votes, and its worked.

Norty immigration has been said by some to have been a deliberate policy by the rich in power to cause job instability and force down wages by the rich. "The Super Rich and Us" exposed the views which are shared by many rich. 46 Minutes in..



Remember how the government has been pushing high interest rate credit at everyone for the last couple of years, at 22 minutes 30 secs, a Professor at the London School of Economics reveals how the Government realised in the 1980's that getting people into debt gave them a means of controlling the population because debt meant people could no longer afford to go on strike.

The UK has voted out because it's sick of immigration causing low wages, no job security, waiting up to 6 weeks for a non urgent doctors appointment, hospitals that can't afford to do operations, schools with class sizes that are too large and are full, housing shortages, grid lock on the roads...

[swamidog]

Half of the US and over half of the UK must be emotionally driven, low information racists or at least xenophobic. Uncontrolled immigration has been a real boon for European culture. Have you walked around London recently? Did the EU have any credible plan to deal with the flood of immigrants other than to threaten Orban with sanctions if the PAIN was not distributed equally? What was the end game? War? Sharia law across Europe? Economic collapse and immigrant self deportation?

every wave of immigrants thinks the next one is the "bad" one.

i have walked around london recently. it was on my way to the middle east where i visited a mosque (no one tried to kill me).

[planters]

i have walked around london recently. it was on my way to the middle east where i visited a mosque (no one tried to kill me).

Were you wearing your burqa? I thought I might have seen you, but I wasn't sure, as there were so many and to a man all sheep look alike or so its said.

every wave of immigrants thinks the next one is the "bad" one.

This may be a truism, but that does not make it false either. "Just because your paranoid does not mean you don't have enemies" and so on.