Pesident Clinton

[planters]

Pence is a BIGOT and a ZEALOT. He is the poster boy douche nozzle for extreme conservatism. He wants to undo the constitution and take away Americans rights.

To me this shows Trumps true colors.

You didn't mention that he smells bad. I wish you had been more forceful back when he had served in Congress for 12 years or been elected governor of Indiana. If we had known that we wouldn't be facing the threat of his becoming VP. Then again, what could you have done? I mean, we all know Indiana is a hell hole filled with racists and homophobes and they will certainly refuse to outlaw trucks, especially white trucks.

But, maybe this is a blessing because as you say, Trump is not going to be able to continue to sneak around and avoid telling people where he really stands. This will surly fracture the high level of unity in the Republican party unlike a choice such as Newt. Newt, recently called for the deportation of all Muslims who support Sharia law. That would undoubtedly have broadened the tent and pulled all those Sanders supporters away from the Democrat party. This should all but guarantee that Hillary will be the next president and the first to serve without a security clearance and possibly without the ability to own a firearm making the White House a gun free zone. Yes!

[logsquared]

You didn't mention that he smells bad.

I have personally never meet Pence. However, many of my friends here have worked with him in the past. They never mentioned any BO

I wish you had been more forceful back when he had served in Congress for 12 years or been elected governor of Indiana.

I did my best. Sadly, he still made it to office.

I mean, we all know Indiana is a hell hole filled with racists and homophobes

I wouldn't call it a hell hole. Well, with the exception of Gary. That is another conversation. And truthfully, it is filled with racists and homophobes. Are they a majority.... not sure? Pence was elected so, probably. At the least, its a majority of people that choose to look the other way if it benefits them.

People are moving forward (forward thinking). Maybe slowly, but its happening.

But, maybe this is a blessing because as you say, Trump is not going to be able to continue to sneak around and avoid telling people where he really stands.

Now you're getting it. Certainly is a blessing he won't be our Governor any longe. (scared to see who replaces him though)

[planters]

And truthfully, it is filled with racists and homophobes. Are they a majority.... not sure? Pence was elected so, probably.

God help us. You really think that?

At the least, its a majority of people that choose to look the other way if it benefits them.

I keep making this point and it is greeted with silence. Hillary is incredibly corrupt with a track record of screw ups and cover ups starting in Arkansas. The response to her failings is not Trump is an A hole.

I have made this point before, but it is pertinent to the Pence choice. Remember the baker who refused to bake a wedding cake for a homosexual couple and how he was vilified? What do you think would have happened if he was a Muslim? Some things change, but somethings don't. The attacks on traditional, christian and general American values might have been a gutsy or chique thing to do back when we were not facing the type of threats we are now. Reasonable proportion is not in play.

[logsquared]

God help us. You really think that?

I do. I think this country has "a long way to go". Humanity for that mater has "a along way to go". That doesn't mean all these people are bad or evil. People are instinctively scared of things that are "different" or they don't understand. That trait may have come from our evolutionary past. To protect us. However, its not a good way to treat our neighbors. We can do better as a society. People in office need to lead by better example.

I keep making this point and it is greeted with silence. Hillary is incredibly corrupt with a track record of screw ups and cover ups starting in Arkansas. The response to her failings is not Trump is an A hole.

I don't think it's been silent. It seems most against Trump don't like Hillary, but like Trump less. Seems simple to me.

Remember the baker who refused to bake a wedding cake for a homosexual couple and how he was vilified?

Of course I remember. It all happened about 10miles from my home.

What do you think would have happened if he was a Muslim?

That's hard to say exactly. If I had to guess, public outrage against the business owners would have been roughly the same. Because it doesn't matter what type of religion the person belongs. Support for the business from politicians would have been much less. And I doubt the Muslim owners would have made nearly 1 million dollars by crowd funding. Again its hard to say. And why are you so fixated on Muslims? I don't get it.

The attacks on traditional, christian and general American values might have been a gutsy or chique thing to do back when we were not facing the type of threats we are now.

I completely disagree. Since when is hate an American value. When is judgment a christian value? Diversity is an American strength. Equality is an American strength and value(its not always been, and we have a way to go). Courage is an American value. When we turn our backs on the cornerstones of American value... we lose.

[swamidog]

I completely disagree. Since when is hate an American value. When is judgment a christian value? Diversity is an American strength. Equality is an American strength and value(its not always been, and we have a way to go). Courage is an American value. When we turn our backs on the cornerstones of American value... we lose.

this! this exactly. thank you.

[planters]

I don't think it's been silent. It seems most against Trump don't like Hillary, but like Trump less. Seems simple to me.

Yes, silent as you are now. Like? Dislike? You are not dating her. The issues are where the silence is deafening.

Since when is hate an American value.

It is you that introduces the term hate and assume that this is now a given. I agree with nil. For that matter, I see far more hate from the left and the SJW's. You throw around these pejoratives and claim Pence demonstrates hate when you call the majority of the citizens of Indiana racists and homophobes. Do you not see the way this comes across? You sound prejudiced.

That's hard to say exactly. If I had to guess, public outrage against the business owners would have been roughly the same.

You have to be kidding. I hope you are kidding. If you are serious then why do you claim this is hard to say? Forget exactly. If you do not see the distinction between these two religious groups then how are you so able to hold your fellow citizens in contempt for their views?

And why are you so fixated on Muslims?

That is hard to say exactly. Maybe because they ARE homophobic. Maybe because the ARE sexists. Maybe its because they support Sharia law that undermines American values and even the Constitution. The killings and terrorism in the name of Islam and the high level of support in the Muslim community for these atrocities is certainly part of it.

Equality is an American strength and value

Equality of opportunity not of outcome is an American value.

This is why I am so critical of your statement about the baker. The left does not treat these groups equally. They act inconsistently and unfairly.

When we turn our backs on the cornerstones of American value... we lose.

You need to look in the mirror.

[logsquared]

Planters, You need to re-read my post. I am not hating my fellow Hoosiers. I think they need more experience with different types of people. I should have read my follow up to your post better. I didn't mean to imply Pence was racist. I don't have evidence of that. He is a BIGOT and ZEALOT. I was replying to where you said "racists and homophobes" I should have differentiated that better.

As for the SJW's. I don't think any reasonable individual would agree with the members that attack, spit on people or vandalize. That crap is old news.

That is hard to say exactly. Maybe because they ARE homophobic. Maybe because the ARE sexists. Maybe its because they support Sharia law that undermines American values and even the Constitution. The killings and terrorism in the name of Islam and the high level of support in the Muslim community for these atrocities is certainly part of it.

The Muslims I know are not like this! What you are saying is the same as saying all priests are molesters or all Christians are homophobic. Yes, there are things in the Koran I don't agree with, as with the new and old testament.

I am going to put you on the hot plate for a minute....

Do you have any Muslim friends? If you do it maybe time to have some hard conversations with them. If not, you should go to a local Mosque. Go inside and ask to talk to someone. Tell them your fears and concerns. I think you find they have the same concerns and goals as most Americans.

Dont worry Sharia law will never happen here.

Equality of opportunity not of outcome is an American value.

Yes. That is why it important to not judge a person before you give them the chance to try.

The left does not treat these groups equally.

Yes. We talked about this earlier in this thread. Moderation should be our goal.

You need to look in the mirror.

I try my best to be fair. I'm human too.

[planters]

He is a BIGOT and ZEALOT. I was replying to where you said "racists and homophobes" I should have differentiated that better.

Fair enough, but it is a pretty fine line. To hold that the majority of your state's population are bigots (rather than racists) and homophobes is still a harsh and I believe prejudiced position.

The Muslims I know are not like this!

The Muslims I know are not zealots either. None of my friends or acquaintances hold violent or anti-American views. At least they do not espouse them or remain my friends. I would guess that this is true for most of us. But, this is not the point. Our anecdotal experience does not change what Islam is doing around the world.

What you are saying is the same as saying all priests are molesters or all Christians are homophobic

No...it is not. Firstly, I never said all. Secondly, and this is important, the transgressions of those priests and an anti-gay position held by some Christians are not being celebrated or supported by widespread violence around the world.

Yes. That is why it important to not judge a person before you give them the chance to try.

I agree with that...in a vacuum. But if that person supports behavior codified in Sharia law then it is naive to pretend that doesn't matter and to ignore this. You must judge.

Because it doesn't matter what type of religion the person belongs.

This is not true. Equating two religions simply because they are religions and ignoring the actions of the followers has little meaning. The Amish follow a strict code of behavior, but none of them, even their most devout followers, are throwing gays from buildings or driving trucks into men women and children in Nice.

Dont worry Sharia law will never happen here.

Why not? It is being implemented in no go zones in Britain and Europe. It is supported by many if not most Muslims and Islam is the fastest growing religion in Europe and the US. There are already 1.6 billion Muslims worldwide.

Furthermore, why should any of us care if Sharia law does happen here? What would be the problem?

I try my best to be fair. I'm human too.

Me too.

[swamidog]

Why not? It is being implemented in no go zones in Britain and Europe.

just how many times does that need to be debunked?

[Nii]

just how many times does that need to be debunked?

Once. Go for it.