To the laser show software companies

[norty303]

Ok, so I've decided to see what the 506's are all about and get a set. There's a bit more to it than that as well, but I'll post a new thread somewhere more relevant once it's all come together. :conspiratorialwinkysmiley:

[The_Doctor]

Ok, so I've decided to see what the 506's are all about and get a set. There's a bit more to it than that as well, but I'll post a new thread somewhere more relevant once it's all come together. :conspiratorialwinkysmiley:

Nice. If you can do that slowly rotating line thinger I mentioned, or any other unblanked slowly rotating polygon, I'm very keen to know how accurately they preserve the shape of straight lines, especially near corners. I know it's a very basic test, and maybe some people will excuse a scanner failing it the same way people have excused MP3 for failing to handle simple waveforms when it's aimed at psychoacoustic modelling. But the way I see it is, why run if you can't walk? I think these basic tests matter. And a really good MP3 encode CAN handle hard simple waves too, and I don't mind if a scanner is not fast, but next time I try to buy one, I do insist that it is accurate. Given that Pangolin report that most people only use 60K scanners to do 30K at wider angles, I suspect a lot more people would agree with this even if they're not very conscious of that fact.

[norty303]

I've just gone back and looked at your avi video for the first time, and it looks to me like that is simply the scanners running at slightly different speeds.
This is the same test essentially as you use the Laser media test pattern to tune out. You only get the effect on the diagonals, not on the pure horizontal or vertical

[The_Doctor]

There's more to it there though, as the diagonals DO sort it out, just not at perfect 45° angles, they're bit off by the time they look equal and track together at an angle. But given how close they are to 45° when they do it, the error magnitude is far too great at other times, specifically when a galvo is starting to move after a momentary rest. While I didn't post the flattened circle images this time, what they show is a good tracking as the galvos come to rest, but a strong reluctance to get moving again. The galvo feedback shows this equally, as it does with the actual light scan. It's a mechanical thing that the WideMove driver has difficulty overcoming. Reluctance to move is a very different thing to a difference in speed.

Steve (Roberts) said that this can happen in ballistic mode, but as far as I can tell, it's actually the reverse here. The ILDA pattern's circle is purely a ballistic response thing, and that does not show the flattening, but any circle drawn more slowly, or drawn smaller at same speed, will show it. I'm sure this cannot be normal, or I'd see it in most people's scans, and I don't, but it's hard to know because no-on ever took up this test, except Zoof.

I figured this test might be similar to what the Lasermedia pattern does, but I never had that one. James Lehman made an ILDA test pattern into a WAV file for me to try with my Layla setup, but I never had that other one. I just discovered this ineradicable flaw when writing code to rotate stuff.

[dsli_jon]

Hey Bill..

..I'll put this in the que for an answer in ~2-3 mo's, since I know yer 'not on PL often', but that'll be 'bout when I'm ready for the info, anyway, so.. no worries..

...Our Saturn 5 is designed for up to 8mm mirrors.

Gotcha.. And, this is presuming the 'standard' mirs you'd ship-with.. However, see-below..

However, we use 3mm shafts on almost everything...

..Reasonable conclusion: This does-include the 506, yes? Please verify..

We could always put a solid shaft on any of our scanners, and I believe 6220 also uses a 3mm solid shaft too. So 6220 mirrors should fit on our Saturn 5 if you ordered with a solid shaft.

Yes, 3.002mm So, I think the 'clam-shell' mounts would-work.. *However*..

..if the "Saturn 5 is designed for up to 8mm mirrors", and we wanna go put a honkin' clam-shell mir-mount on it, a-la the 6220-style.. is this gonna create 'tuning issues'? ie: When you say 'UP-TO' (..as-if addressing a 'design limit'..) is 'up-to' speaking more-to the 'stated performance-aspect limits'? (ie: 'The Saturn 5 will give you up-to XXkpps with our 8mm mir'..) Or is it more like 'using over 8mm mirs is not-recommended.. at-all?' (oscillation-issues, etc..) - My point-being... If we wanted to use, ie: a 6220 clam-shell-style mount, on a Saturn 5, with, say, the 10mm-aperture mirs I referenced.. Would there be 'risk' with that much mass? (..even-if 'scan-speed' was necessarily-lower than max-potential.. which is fine for our app.. I'm concerned with max-accuracy / lowest-drift..) ..That all-said..

For "low drift" you would need to use the Pro version of our '506. The difference between the Pro version and Economy version is the position sensor. The Pro uses our Saturn position sensor...

..OK, but what is the 'difference' between the 506 'Pro', (with a DSL-amp or whatever would-be best..) and a Saturn 5? At least in-terms of 'accuracy' / lowest-drift, *with* the honkin' 10mm mir-rig, ref'd above, in-play.. I'm just after what would be "the best scanner" for the job... Again, not worried about 'cheapest', etc..

..Oh, and "the job" is mechanical-blanking, with a 'v-block, vertical-retro' mount, 10mm-aperture mirs, that will 'blank' individual R, G, and B beams, *before* converging them into 'white'.. (thus, the need for 'max-accuracy / lowest-drift'..) Yes, the 'convergence', post-blanking will all be quickly-adjustable for the far-field RGB mash-up, but.. Obviously, the less 'pre-convergence galvo-drift' in the blanking-stage, the better, since that will = less convergence-adjustment, overall.. Am I making any sense?

Thanks for the answer, whenever..
j

[planters]

Jon,

All good questions and although the answers might be guessed and I mean really speculatively guessed from earlier posts and the data sheets: why guess? I do not know about the pointing accuracy of the EMS 8000 scanners, but Tom says these are now available with 6.8mm, 8.6mm and a full 10mm mirror set.

[dsli_jon]

...EMS 8000 scanners..now available with..and a full 10mm mirror set.

Yes, very-keen to lay hands on them, but.. 'spare-funds' for such goodies have been impossible past couple months.. long / frustrating story for another thread, but.. I've been *really* happy with the 7Ks for graphics-werk.. to the point that I've modded one of our RGBs with them vs the 'stock' CT 6215Hs, because - frankly - the EMS 7Ks were beating the pants off the 6215H's (..which do-have larger mirrs.. to-be fair.. as-to 'detail-handling' capability / real-world performance, overall.. And, though 'barely', the full 5mm beam does-fit on the 7K mirrs w/o 'spill', and so.. it just made better-sense to 'swap' vs spend a boatload more $$ on 'smaller mirrs' for the 6215s / retune, etc.. I am confident the 8Ks will be no-less disappointing..

..but, at this point, for the application we're considering the Pangvo's for, the reknowned CT 6220-accuracy and low-drift specs are currently-king, and I certainly have no-reason to expect anything 'less-great' from BillCo. ..So, will be keen to get the 'difference details' between the '506 Pros' and the 'Sat V', as-to the specifics, above..

..Where-might EMS 8K's play-in? TBD.. ..But, I suspect while they might be good-candidates for the 'XY-output stage' of the PJ, for the much-more accuracy-critical mech-blank stage, I think we're gonna need the more 'scientific-grade' performance-specs of at-least the 6220s, unless the P'vos do, indeed, 'spank them out of court', as Bill suggests... Will just have to wait till we can 'afford to do the homework', across the 3-4 pairs.. (..*sigh*.. Isn't that everybodys' story, these-days?..)

cheers..
j

[Pangolin]

I'll be shipping Steve's set early next week. I made a video showing the performance. It can be seen here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7ncsKeTM0Q

I'll also likely be shipping Norty's as well. I didn't make a video of those, but probably should have. Performance looks really great, even with our mirror set capable of working with 5mm square beams.

More answers in following posts.

Bill

[absolom7691]

Extremely impressed with 30K @ 15° especially with it looking so clean on the "economy" Pango scanners. I am anxious to see what they look like on the new amps, when they become available. Pangolin; always late but sure as hell worth the wait!

[swamidog]

nice job bill, that looks great!

will you publish the turbo tracks mods so i can do the same with mine?

I'll be shipping Steve's set early next week. I made a video showing the performance. It can be seen here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7ncsKeTM0Q

I'll also likely be shipping Norty's as well. I didn't make a video of those, but probably should have. Performance looks really great, even with our mirror set capable of working with 5mm square beams.

More answers in following posts.

Bill