Spaghetti - Spaghetti - Spaghetti

[Zoof]

Actually I was thinking in terms of food fight!!!!!!!!!!

[keeperx]

[White-Light]

your white balance is a bit off.... (yellowish)

That would be the bug.

Don't tell Gary or he might withdraw the source!

[flecom]

not nice lol

writing software that does anything useful in your spare time is incredibly difficult (unless you are l33t coding hax0r) trust me i know!

you need to give these guys some slack... they spend a LOT of time making this stuff work, so they are going to naturally be very passionate about their work, as such comparing the work of one person, to a commercial product, is really unfair... i dont want to take sides, as i only skimmed through all these threads (and i own a pangolin system), but we need less drama in the laser software world

actually i think the best chances of sucess for all you one-person laser show software people would be to combine efforts, make a big source-forge project or something and use spaghetti as your timeline editing software, and use laserboy for your effects/pattern generator and sound-card output, zoof's 3d engine etc... i know thats a LOT easier said than done, but there is obviously a lot of smarts on this board, you guys should at least attempt to do some kind of open source community project, who knows it could become a very nice thing once all pieced together... just an idea...

but i really think that we need to try and support these projects, becuase i personally would love to see a fully-featured laser package for hobbists that makes nice results using the minimum amount of $$$ in hardware and software...

[White-Light]

The last comment was actually a joke, a play on words, a light hearted dig on my behalf.

In actual fact Gary has been cut a lot of slack.

His history of attacking other members, or more specifically Bill, has been a long one and a source of irritation to a lot of members on here for a long time. Especially as Bill has been nothing but of help to this community and has constantly risen above these attacks. Where else would you find a MD who comes onto a forum to help his software's users and answer problem questions on other topics for those who don't even use his software? Some have spoken up in defence of those attacked eg Adam. Most including myself have kept quiet for a long time for the sake of keeping the peace despite agreeing entirely with the sentiments of those who have spoken up. You'd be surprised at the number of members who disagreed with his attacks but kept quiet except in private to try to allow things to smooth over each time.

For me the last straw in keeping quiet was when Gary decided to turn a polite, useful feedback request and request for help with his software into a refusal as a way of not only attacking me, who has previously said nothing against him, but as a means attacking the whole forum with regards to the use of his spaghetti software. One person reports a bug so the whole forum suffers including those of you use his programme but never said a word. What kind of a reaction is that? Its like I said above, a case of toys been throwing out of the pram (baby buggy) because someone actually dared to point out a fault.

Under the circumstances of a personal attack on me, which is what his refusal to help the whole forum was, as well as an attack on every other member on here, I'm simply not going to surpress my anger at his treatment of other members any longer and that was what has been expressed above.

..and further I think it just shows how temperamental and immature at times he really is when he can withdraw his google group and web page as well as a way of getting back at 1 or 2 individuals on this forum he dislikes. Baby, toys and pram again.

Despite that, and what I've said, I still don't have anything personal against Gary beyond his attacks on others, and I have no problems with him returning in the future if he wants to PROVIDED he lays off the attacks which he must know by now are unacceptable.

As for the withdrawal of his software, that is regrettable but the gap will be filled by someone else. I'm pretty sure Pangolin are working on something at community level. Maybe I'll even try James' Laserboy.

[buffo]

you need to give these guys some slack...

Trust me, Frank. Slack has been given. Lots of it. So much, in fact, that there is a world-wide shortage of slack at the moment!

they spend a LOT of time making this stuff work, so they are going to naturally be very passionate about their work

No argument there. And no one has a problem with programmers being passionate. Heck, we're all passionate about lasers, aren't we? There's nothing wrong with passion. It's when you fail to channel that passion into something constructive, and instead use your passion to insult other people, that it becomes a problem.

comparing the work of one person, to a commercial product, is really unfair..

Agreed. But we weren't the one's doing the comparing. Carmangary was the one who claimed he could write software that would blow mamba out of the water. See here:

So, I am forging head making my software a lot better so that it can create shows as good or better than some of the existing stuff. I can say this, I will blow Moncha and Mamba Black out of the water.

So you see, Gary is the one that wanted to compare his software to the commercial stuff, not us.

Gary also had a habit of getting into technical discussions with Bill (often about features that Pangolin already had), and then invariably those discussions would turn into a personal attack on Bill. That tends to piss people off, especially those who know Bill and understand all he's done for the industry as a whole, and the hobbyist community in particular.

I dont want to take sides, as i only skimmed through all these threads

No need to take sides, but if you want to understand the meat of the issue you need to do more than skim. There is a lot of negativity burried in those posts. Negativity that Gary brought to the table with the expectation that we would all swallow it and say nothing. Most people simply gritted their teeth and stayed silent (or at best, complained about it in PM's.) But as time wore on, the discontent grew, until we arrived where we are today.

but we need less drama in the laser software world

I agree. And that's why I have much higher hopes for Agilent C's project, and DCHammond's abstract generator, and the pending release of the LFI Player software (complete with a real user's manual). None of these developers are prone to drama.

Longer term, I know that Zoof has some very interesting 3D ideas that he's been working on. Then too, Mikojay is tinkering with the Pangolin LD-2000 SDK, and there may be a future project there as well. This is but a sampling of the many projects going on among PL members. So there will likely be considerable development going on in the hobbyist laser show arena for the forseable future despite the fact that Gary has decided to pull the plug on Spaghetti.

i think the best chances of sucess for all you one-person laser show software people would be to combine efforts

There was some cooperation, but Gary liked to use Microsoft development tools, while James did not. Not sure what environment Zoof is using, but I think it's something else still. So it's hard to collaborate when you're all using different development platforms.

use spaghetti as your timeline editing software, and use laserboy for your effects/pattern generator and sound-card output, zoof's 3d engine etc...

That is something that the end user can do withouth the help of the developers. Simply collect the tools you need to make laser shows separately, and then use them as you see fit. And in fact, a lot of people are running LaserBoy as a frame editor (and frame conversion tool), while using Spaghetti for a show editor. The two programs don't have to talk to each other in order to be useful. They just need to read and write a common file format. (ILDA)

i really think that we need to try and support these projects

There has been a lot of support for these projects. It's only when the drama (and personal attacks) got out of hand that people started getting fed up with it. I *still* support LaserBoy, in fact, because despite the fact that James has decided to leave PL, he is still reachable via E-mail and telephone. He is also still working on LaserBoy - fixing bugs and adding features. So that remains an option for the budding hobbyist on a budget.

Adam

[carmangary]

Well, I thought my account was deleted but apparently not. I really didn't want to come back on here and say anything but I see some ridiculous stuff in this thread and wanted to at least comment on behalf of myself.

1st, to White-Light, your comments show your true colors and the reason I refused to help you is because of this. All I did was say that I was "Sorry I can't help you with that" and you have since pretty much dragged my name up and down the street. So, I am completely glad I did not help you. Anyone who has dealt with me in regards to Spaghetti knows that I have been helpful and prompt in fixing bugs. I created an entire Google Group just for bug reports. I had a web page with Contact info. Multiple times I said I would help if people would just report bugs. Some guy asked me to add support for a ML USB box and within a day I did. So to those who say I have poor customer service, maybe it is the other way. I don't have any custom service. I am not a company. If I don't help you it is because I think you are a douche. The only comments I ever received from White-Light prior up until this point were not helpful, only, "your software is worse now so I am abandoning it". My response to that was "Fine, and I will abandon helping you with it."

Some of the other things said here are ridiculous, too. Adam commented that his multiquotes were just how he does things and not meant to be offensive and all is forgiven. My last joke about Beyond was simply a joke that I thought was innocent and funny. That's just how I am. But, since Adam's opinion must prevail over what is fact, it was turned into "another rant against Pangolin and every Pangolin user on here." Adam turned it into that. I did not. I don't care if you use dishwasher soap to run your lasers, and I don't care when Beyond is released. I just thought it was funny that you were having orgasms over software that so far is just hype. Acting like school girls waiting for N'Sync to come on stage is what you looked like. It is funny. I commented, and you acted like school girls and had a hissy fit, telling me I was not in your club and to shut up. I get it, I don't have any N'Sync albums so it is not fair of me to say laugh at you.

Also, Adam, for the record, you did absolutely zero to help me out with Spaghetti and your offer to help was extremely exagerated. The Mamba stuff you did never went anywhere. I never even had time to use look at the files you sent and I went in a totally different direction. Obviously, you don't even know anything about Spaghetti because there is no Mamba compatibility in it all. I have no idea where that comment came from. Adam, if you started to actually think and stop being a parrot to what everyone else says it would be a lot better. You are 50% assumptions, 30% opinions, and 19% copy cat.

But regardless of everything, let me say this. In my lifetime there have been people that I get along with and people that I don't get along with. I have always had a problem getting along with assholes. I think that Adam is an asshole. I think that Bill Benner is an asshole. I think that White-Light is an asshole. There are few others on here that I also think that of but not to the extent to say it. To the rest of you, it has been a pleasure for the most part. But, I don't want to spend time in this forum when 90% of the posts are from assholes. I know that some of you might think I am wrong, and that those people are in fact, very nice, or saints, or a blessing to the community. That's fine. Think that. But, I still think they are assholes... and as Buffo said, it is all about perception. It is what people think of you that counts. So Buffo, Bill, (well actually not so much Bill, I just think he is arrogant and defending his business so maybe I can excuse that), but definitely White-Light. Yea, you two are complete assholes.

Ah, tranquility, that is how I feel now that I have said my peace. Closure.

[keeperx]

Well thats just great... in the past 6 months i have watched the developers of the 2 most useful and cool projects (laserboy and spaghetti) LEAVE the PL. Thats because the PL is a hostile environment to those with opinions and outlooks on life that differ from those of the mainstream commercial laser community (aka pango/mamba/moncha/etc).

[buffo]

I have always had a problem getting along with assholes. I think that Adam is an asshole. I think that Bill Benner is an asshole. I think that White-Light is an asshole. There are few others on here that I also think that of but not to the extent to say it.

Maybe if you think so many people are assholes, then *you* are the problem, not them? Ever think about that? No, I guess not...

Not sure if you know it or not, but plenty of people on LaserPointerForums are equally pissed at you. So it's not just here on PL that you've developed the reputation for being a jerk! Think about that for a moment...

So, tell us: Are you gone for good now? (What is this, your 3rd goodbye?) Or are you going to come back next week with more negative posts for us? Just curious...

Personally, I'd like to see you drop your attitude and just act normal for a change. But it seems that's too much to ask. So if you want to leave - go ahead. We'll still be here. (And probably even more tranquil!)

But if you think I'm going to cry because you're leaving (again), you're mistaken. I'm through cutting you any more slack. Thanks for telling me that you didn't use any of the files I sent you. I'll be sure to remember to never offer you any further assistance (or to test any Pangolin features so you can copy them).

Adam

[carmangary]

Adam, well, as long as you keep blathering with your BS I think I might keep responding. And to answer your question, no I don't think it is me, I think it is you that is the instigating asshole. You love talking about people and offering you opinions about them as fact. You love speaking for everyone as if you know how the entire group feels. That's messed up, man. But whatever. This thread is not to discuss why you are a douche.

Also Adam, I think I posted maybe 4 times on LaserPointerForums. One time I annouced Spaghetti and offered to help people with it. Another time I recommeded Lasever blue lasers. Then I announced that Spaghetti as not being continued. And finally, in response to continued to development of Spaghetti I said I might sell it on Ebay... which actually might happen. So, if people there are pissed off at me then they have problems because they have no right to be. But, more than likely, you are just spouting more BS and that people on LaserPointerForums don't even know who I am.

If anyone is upset that I have pulled Spaghetti then I have a response to that. What did YOU do to contribute to Spaghetti? How did YOU make it worth my time to spend hours coding, responding to your emails, and release new versions with enhancements and bug fixes? Did you pay me? Did you create shows and share them? Or did you just play some shows that I happened to share or use it as an ILDA file viewer? If someone can give me an honest and good reason that I should continue working on Spaghetti, I will. Or maybe if I see someone creating shows and sharing them I will. But right now, each and every person who has just downloaded Spaghetti and offered nothing back is as guilty for me pulling the plug as anyone else. If you think that I am a jerk by doing this then you don't think my time is very valuable and I don't wish to help you.

Adam, I don't want you to ctry. I don't want your sympathy. I don't want your friendship. I don't want anything from you. There is nothing that you can do or say that will make me respect you. I owe you nothing. You owe me nothing. But maybe you could at least stop coming up with all the BS. If you want to state facts about me go ahead. But what's with all the BS out of context stuff and stating what your opinion is as fact? Most of what you say about me is either not true or misinterpreted, or just so far out of context that it doesn't make sense. It doesn't hurt my feelings but I want to let everyone know that it is BS. Why I even care about that, I don't know.

Anyway, whatever, right? I don't think I have lost any friends or lost any money so, yea, whatever.