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Thread: help a noob out, pleeaase??

  1. #21
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    Maybe you should consider building a good single or dual colour projector with approiate spaces for later upgrades rather with nicer scanners and the approiate safety measures that can earn you money rather then a cheaper 3 colour system that could end up losing you money as you struggle to do shows with in.

  2. #22
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    Interestingly; I have been doing exactly the same research for my first home built projector and found the standard in the uk is: BS EN 60825-1:2007 more than a passing resemlence to the US version IEC 60825-1:2007.
    http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/3985/laser.gif

    Doc's website

    The Health and Safety Act 1971

    Recklessly interfering with Darwin’s natural selection process, thereby extending the life cycle of dim-witted ignorami; thus perpetuating and magnifying the danger to us all, by enabling them to breed and walk amongst us, our children and loved ones.





  3. #23
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    Wow! Slam Dunk! "If we do not police our selves then they surely WILL"! Besides jail ..... there are fines. ANYBODY KNOW WHAT THE MAX FINE IS FOR 2009? I thought it was up to $50,000 back when BRH controlled it but I am not sure what the FDA max is. Anybody know?
    Last edited by markerney; 04-21-2009 at 13:35. Reason: remove quote to save space

  4. #24
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    what sort of shutters are available, and where do i buy one??

    can i design and build my own? what is the minimum action time? what are the tripping requirements?


    also, if i get approval for my laser with 1 green laser, and then add red and blue later, do i reapply? how does that work?

    also, what exactly are the requirements on an output meter?

    how do they work?


    also, when power is cut before or after the laser power supply, does the laser instantly stop output, or fade over period of time?



    also, is the blanket variance for the laser show and output? or the venue as well? i cant find that. can i measure outputs and everything at my house for other areas? or does everything need to be on site?


    when i build the projector, does it need to be inspected, or do i send pictures and a written report?
    Last edited by hibbity; 04-21-2009 at 14:42.

  5. #25
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    (ii) Each laser system classified as a Class IIIb or IV laser product shall incorporate an emission indicator which provides a visible or audible signal during emission of accessible laser radiation in excess of the accessible emission limits of Class I, and sufficiently prior to emission of such radiation to allow appropriate action to avoid exposure to the laser radiation.



    I dont get it, how does this work? is that data sent to the shutter? also, is this applicable to lasershows? I need to have a safeguard on galvo speed rather than beam, right? the shutter needs to close if the galvos stop, not if the beam is bright?


    my father works at an engineering and mechanical supply company. with one of their products i can measure the signal sent from the controllers to e galvos, and detect whether they stop or move too slowly, and can trigger a signal to the shutter as quickly as 3 or 4 microseconds, its that fast enough? is that sort of scan fail detection required?

    also, where can i buy a shutter? would an LCD shutter be suitable? a piece of aluminum on a stepper motor? id anticipate a 3ms maximum response from the unit i built out of a stepper.
    Last edited by hibbity; 04-21-2009 at 16:35.

  6. #26
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    There we go, now your at the heart of discussions on this forum.


  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by hibbity View Post

    also, where can i buy a shutter? .

    http://w2s.ledex.com/ledx/ds/lx000/l...sso?pcode=L229

    CDRH-FDA approved.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by mophead View Post

    no price listed.

    do shutters have to be individually approved, or would an equivalent device from a competing parts supplier be acceptable?

    my dad is in automation, he can probably get me a solenoid from his company for free or really cheap.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by markerney View Post
    Wow! Slam Dunk! "If we do not police our selves then they surely WILL"! Besides jail ..... there are fines. ANYBODY KNOW WHAT THE MAX FINE IS FOR 2009? I thought it was up to $50,000 back when BRH controlled it but I am not sure what the FDA max is. Anybody know?

    Swonce upon a time, I looked it up, I belive its $300,000/6 months if they involve a US Attorney, but there are administrative penalties as well.

    Steve

  10. #30
    mixedgas's Avatar
    mixedgas is offline Creaky Old Award Winning Bastard Technologist
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    Quote Originally Posted by hibbity View Post
    what sort of shutters are available, and where do i buy one??

    can i design and build my own? what is the minimum action time? what are the tripping requirements?

    The requirement is spring return to zero on closure or power failure.
    Typical devices are open loop galvos with a torsion wire such as gm20 actuators, GM734, g330 galvos, or positive action rotary solenoids such as ledex. There is no such thing as a CDRH approved shutter, but there are ones that have passed through the process in the past and are commonly accepted by the industry . time will be a few tens of milliseconds, but there is no requirement other then a fast and positive spring return closure. It must be "fail safe", ie you need the spring closure, you cannot depend on electronics to close it. IE no model airplane servos etc If your going for high power, you buy something like a Nanometer Products inc Fast shutter.
    The idea is to use a device with proven reliabilty, and you buy something that is similar to medical or aircraft grade.



    also, if i get approval for my laser with 1 green laser, and then add red and blue later, do i reapply? how does that work?

    YOU can add lasers, but you design it up front for a range of lasers, mine says YAG/ION to 25 watts pulsed and cw 450-670 nm internal or external lasers. HINT, you do not declare what is in the box, only what it can do. Ie you dont say, only works with Coherent Star IIs with low divergence optics.. Then when they find it hooked to a lexel 88 your in violation. Ie you would state internal lasers "diode pumped solid state and direct diode lasers -500 mW total power 440 to 670 nm". for example.

    But there is a limit, dont variance for a 60 watt KTP 532 if your only going to ever use 1 watt of solid state, unless you like frequent inspections. Oh and you should know, the inspector can show up at any time and you have no choice but to let them in. They usually call first and set up a date and time, but they can pop in at all hours, even if the unit is at your house and in storage. Think of it as them having a permanent warrant to search your projector. The guy has a badge, but no gun, but he/she has usually been to Glenco and trained as a federal LEO. Google Glenco, Georgia.

    The projector is a black box except for safety systems and labling. Those are highly detailed with schematics. Everything else is a block diagram, Your operators manual shows "typical". not exact setups and is labeled as such. You do not box yourself into a limited setup, unless your doing a fixed install, and then you do that only when someone else is operating it and you want off the hook if a idiot outside or your control, ie a club employee, makes illegal changes to the beam path. Ie you sell them a unit and are making them responsible for quality assurance.

    Do not depend on the lasers built in modulation for safety.


    also, what exactly are the requirements on an output meter?

    What output meter? That is medical laser.



    also, when power is cut before or after the laser power supply, does the laser instantly stop output, or fade over period of time?
    Right now, the shutter must close as close to instantly as possible.
    also, is the blanket variance for the laser show and output? or the venue as well? i cant find that. can i measure outputs and everything at my house for other areas? or does everything need to be on site?

    Ah, Quality control. You have a pre show checklist, a post show checklist, and a show report log as part of your owners manual. You can set up for touring if you tour, its a check box on the form. Large fixed installs get their own fixed variances, there is no hard and fast rule on which box you check, unless its mobile.




    when i build the projector, does it need to be inspected, or do i send pictures and a written report?
    You send a written report, called a "manufacturers report", you can submit it at the same time you apply for the variance. It gets approved first. YOu then have to keep records of each one you build. You cannot sell, use or install a new one without applying for or amending your variance.You need to keep records on serial numbers etc for up to 7 years or more. Drawings and pictures are a requirement. Its Funny mine show the safety systems and actuators and beam paths , but there are no lasers in the picture, its a pretty much empty box. I wonder why that is.... Hum,....

    Once a year you write a report , and state that you have retested the projector. basicly it can be as simple as showing there is no leakage and the safety systems work and all the required stickers and labels are there.
    You also supposed to inspect it and submit a report if its been damaged or subjected to flooding etc. You also submit a yearly show report of all shows performed, and keep your quality control checklists for each show in a binder for inspection.


    Steve

    Last edited by mixedgas; 04-22-2009 at 03:02.

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