Pesident Clinton

[planters]

The more he pushes on civil liberties and basic human rights, the more people will push back, you can count on that.

You are inverting the threat. The reason he was elected is BECAUSE the elitists have been infringing on our rights for a long time and with increasing impunity. These idiots, the rioters, are not the victims. They are acting on behalf of the loosers in this democratic election. Except for Jon, I hear silence on the part of the Hillary supporters on this forum. This is telling and it suggests support or at least tolerance of their violent behavior.

I will welcome this great great change, but I will mourn the suffering to come

I too welcome it, but who exactly are going to suffer?

it will also cease to be safe for the privileged white male and his allies

Is this a threat? What about us unprivileged white males, females, Indonesians, blacks and others that support this change? Are we supposed to succumb to this violence, violent rhetoric and threats? Not any more. When the loosers of this election begin to calm down and behave then let's discuss where we can come together.

[james]

You are inverting the threat. The reason he was elected is BECAUSE the elitists have been infringing on our rights for a long time and with increasing impunity.

Like what, exactly?

[discothefunkyhippo]

I do not advocate for violence. Violence begets violence. Its no coincidence that the US government spends what they do on Defense: Fear of retribution. Unfortunately laying down arms requires everyone on this planet to do the same and frankly we don't trust the animals of domination within each other do this yet.

This wasn't meant to be taken as a threat. I am only making a prediction and hope to issue a warning based on my intuition and what I see from my perspective. You get to choose what you do in the face of violence and you must live with that choice. That is the beauty of it. I am not here to judge how you choose to defend the beliefs you think are worth defending. I just hope that you examine your beliefs, where they came from, what you get out of their defense, and what the cost is of defending them. Remember every single person on this planet is just defending what they believe in and that those beliefs are merely constructions of a human mind and human experience.

For clarity, the change I welcome is not Trump or his policies, but rather what will happen in effect to Trump and his policies. It can be likened to a game of chess, I am looking at the moves that have yet to occur. I welcome any player in the game to make a move that is one step closer to mate. There is potential here, the question is whether or not it will be seized. But causality is a funny thing for another thread.

I believe that as long as any living being suffers we all suffer; the more beings that suffer, the more that suffering will be experienced collectively. Can suffering ever be extinguished? I expect you were asking specifically who will suffer. My hope is no one, but the relationship between the split nation do not seem to be symbiotic. A parasite is just another living being. Who gets to decide which organism is more worthy of existence? Logically, its the stronger one and it has nothing do with morals or who is right.

I hope the nation does 'calm down', by this I mean move from a position of reaction to action. Action is more efficient than reaction. If by 'calm down' you mean accept the decision this country has made and return to its usual pacified state, I can not agree with you. The decision to elect Trump is but a symptom of the real problems in our country. The decision to elect Trump ins't real action, it was merely a litmus test to show us where we stand as a nation.

-Sal

[james]

Uhh, yer kidding, right? How about: ...

Actually, I was hoping to hear from Planters.

So in your mind there is no difference between the Dems and the Reps?

[DrEvil]

Is it me or is it getting warm in here?

Both sides are jacked up. The Democrats had the worst candidate this election though. You can thank the DNC for giving in to a corrupt candidate. While I am curious about Trump, I did not vote for him (or HRC). I am also glad Obama is leaving the office. The only good thing that happened during his time was rights for LGBT. I personally think marriage rights is something that should stay out of politics though.

[james]

I personally think marriage rights is something that should stay out of politics though.

It's about "the law of the land" and that is politics by definition.

[planters]

Actually, I was hoping to hear from Planters.

OK, but I think Jon covered it quite well. So, what do you think? Do you disagree with his list?

I do not advocate for violence. Violence begets violence.

But, it hasn't so far and so as it stands I'll take it you agree this unilateral violence is unacceptable. And, while it continues it is reasonable that the winners in this election have little reason to "reach out".

So in your mind there is no difference between the Dems and the Reps?

No, not much. They both oppose what Trump represents and what won the election; a pox on both their houses.

I am not here to judge how you choose to defend the beliefs you think are worth defending.

I am only making a prediction and hope to issue a warning based on my intuition and what I see from my perspective.

I certainly am. If you choose to defend your beliefs with violence then don't ask me to understand your concerns. When someone repeatedly insults the candidate I supported and refuses to repudiate their fellows for their violent actions, then they shouldn't ask me to reach out and understand their fears. Your warning should be to your fellow supporters of HRC. They are the ones committing the violence. Don't expect me to accommodate them because of their violence. The exact opposite is going to be the result.

Unfortunately laying down arms requires everyone on this planet to do the same

No one is asking anyone not to defend themselves. I am not asking anyone to lay down their arms. I am demanding that they stop initiating violence and stop using them and I am also demanding that all of us repudiate their actions. Silence in the face of evil is evil.

For clarity, the change I welcome is not Trump or his policies, but rather what will happen in effect to Trump and his policies.

I agree with this wholeheartedly.

[james]

OK, but I think Jon covered it quite well. So, what do you think? Do you disagree with his list?

Uh..... I don't think he covered anything well. I just don't get it. Before this election I had no reason to feel oppressed. I don't think I'm being spied on either. But I do think that the marriage equality decision was excellent. Pence scares the hell out of me. We might role back LGBT rights by decades if he gets what he wants. He wanted to de-fund HIV / Aids programs in Indiana and use that money for religious based "gay conversion therapy" That's horrifying.

[planters]

Uh..... I don't think he covered anything well. I just don't get it. Before this election I had no reason to feel oppressed. I don't think I'm being spied on either.

If that is truly what you believe and I have no reason to doubt you then the distance between us is vast. There may never be an understanding or the accommodations you seek. With time, there may be some movement on each of our sides toward cooperation, but not yet.

Will you at least repudiate the violence that is being carried out on behalf of HRC and her campaign?

[logsquared]

Will you at least repudiate the violence that is being carried out on behalf of HRC and her campaign?

Planters, man, seriously. Not every HRC supporter or liberal is out rioting. You say you are happy but keep saying negative things. Stop reading all the negative news feeds. Don't let fear control your thinking.